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Sean P. DeNigris

Morphic Cleanup Status

Administrator

What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other?

I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's actively being done right now?

Thanks.
Sean

Cheers,
Sean

Alain Plantec-3

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

Le 25/11/2011 07:39, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :
> What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other?
>
> I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to
> clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked
> on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's
> actively being done right now?
Hi Sean,
AFAIK, no deep cleaning action. nothing from my side for now.
I think they have done some refactoring around layout managing in CUIS
(SimpleMorphic).
btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing.
Cheers
Alain

>
> Thanks.
> Sean
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

Fernando olivero-2

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris

Hi Sean, i got overwhelmed last year with the task of porting CUIS
Morphic, to Pharo. There's just to much differences on several common
classes, it's hard to fully understand how to merge both ui
frameworks.

Even though i believe Juan has a did an excellent work in simplifying
Morphic, and adding simpler code, like for example his new layouts
(download CUIS and try them out).

But my overall impression , was that we need to stop being backward
compatible in order to create a simple Morphic-like framework for
Pharo, and start from scratch. Fixing current Morphic is also a
humongous task, for example see Stef's nice work on cleaning the
event handling mechanism.

Fernando

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Alain Plantec <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 25/11/2011 07:39, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :
>> What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other?
>>
>> I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to
>> clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked
>> on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's
>> actively being done right now?
> Hi Sean,
> AFAIK, no deep cleaning action. nothing from my side for now.
> I think they have done some refactoring around layout managing in CUIS
> (SimpleMorphic).
> btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing.
> Cheers
> Alain
>
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Sean
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

On Nov 25, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Fernando Olivero wrote:

> Hi Sean, i got overwhelmed last year with the task of porting CUIS
> Morphic, to Pharo. There's just to much differences on several common
> classes, it's hard to fully understand how to merge both ui
> frameworks.
>
> Even though i believe Juan has a did an excellent work in simplifying
> Morphic, and adding simpler code, like for example his new layouts
> (download CUIS and try them out).
>
> But my overall impression , was that we need to stop being backward
> compatible in order to create a simple Morphic-like framework for
> Pharo, and start from scratch. Fixing current Morphic is also a
> humongous task, for example see Stef's nice work on cleaning the
> event handling mechanism.

BTW you should be able to use the new event hierarchy: it is clean (no first second…..) and a nice support for double
dispatch. I hope that next week I can sit with igor and we finish our journey.
How do you deal with event in Gaucho.

Stef

>
> Fernando
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Alain Plantec <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Le 25/11/2011 07:39, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :
>>> What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other?
>>>
>>> I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to
>>> clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked
>>> on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's
>>> actively being done right now?
>> Hi Sean,
>> AFAIK, no deep cleaning action. nothing from my side for now.
>> I think they have done some refactoring around layout managing in CUIS
>> (SimpleMorphic).
>> btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing.
>> Cheers
>> Alain
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Fernando olivero-2

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

In reply to this post by Fernando olivero-2

Differently from what i've shown you at ESUG, i didn't reify the events.

The vm announces a new event to the GUserInterface, who dispatches the
event to the mouse or the keyboard. Which in turn, according to its
inner state (modeled using a fsm), sends a message to the user
interface, such as #clickedAt: , #secondaryClickedAt: , #move:
#moveDragging:, #keystroke: aGKeystroke, etc..

The following diagram depicts the scheme.

Fernando

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Nov 25, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Fernando Olivero wrote:
>
>> Hi Sean, i got overwhelmed last year with the task of porting CUIS
>> Morphic, to Pharo. There's just to much differences on several common
>> classes, it's hard to fully understand how to merge both ui
>> frameworks.
>>
>> Even though i believe Juan has a did an excellent work in simplifying
>> Morphic, and adding simpler code, like for example his new layouts
>> (download CUIS and try them out).
>>
>> But my overall impression , was that we need to stop being backward
>> compatible in order to create a simple Morphic-like framework for
>> Pharo, and start from scratch. Fixing current Morphic is also a
>> humongous task, for example see Stef's nice work on cleaning the
>> event handling mechanism.
>
> BTW you should be able to use the new event hierarchy: it is clean (no first second…..) and a nice support for double
> dispatch. I hope that next week I can sit with igor and we finish our journey.
> How do you deal with event in Gaucho.
>
> Stef
>>
>> Fernando
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Alain Plantec <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Le 25/11/2011 07:39, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :
>>>> What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other?
>>>>
>>>> I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to
>>>> clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked
>>>> on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's
>>>> actively being done right now?
>>> Hi Sean,
>>> AFAIK, no deep cleaning action. nothing from my side for now.
>>> I think they have done some refactoring around layout managing in CUIS
>>> (SimpleMorphic).
>>> btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing.
>>> Cheers
>>> Alain
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Sean
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html
>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

GauchoEvents-1.pdf (36K) Download Attachment

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

Administrator

In reply to this post by Alain Plantec-3

Alain Plantec-3 wrote

btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing.

It's my pleasure. I'm inspired by all the great work going on. Already (in a few weeks) FS has made dealing with the filesystem - gasp - enjoyable! While I wish everything would happen at once, I see every version of Pharo becoming more useful, beautiful, and fun. Working with 1.3 on top of Cog, 1.0 with the Interpreter VM feels unrecognizable.

I feel the convolution and complexity of Morphic holding me back, and I sense that it holds the community back from producing tons of cool tools. I'd love to have a win here.

Sean

Cheers,
Sean

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

In reply to this post by Fernando olivero-2

I hope that we will be able to integrate our new nice event model (it may check a bit the system).

Stef

> Differently from what i've shown you at ESUG, i didn't reify the events.
>
> The vm announces a new event to the GUserInterface, who dispatches the
> event to the mouse or the keyboard. Which in turn, according to its
> inner state (modeled using a fsm), sends a message to the user
> interface, such as #clickedAt: , #secondaryClickedAt: , #move:
> #moveDragging:, #keystroke: aGKeystroke, etc..
>
> The following diagram depicts the scheme.
>
>
> Fernando
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Fernando Olivero wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sean, i got overwhelmed last year with the task of porting CUIS
>>> Morphic, to Pharo. There's just to much differences on several common
>>> classes, it's hard to fully understand how to merge both ui
>>> frameworks.
>>>
>>> Even though i believe Juan has a did an excellent work in simplifying
>>> Morphic, and adding simpler code, like for example his new layouts
>>> (download CUIS and try them out).
>>>
>>> But my overall impression , was that we need to stop being backward
>>> compatible in order to create a simple Morphic-like framework for
>>> Pharo, and start from scratch. Fixing current Morphic is also a
>>> humongous task, for example see Stef's nice work on cleaning the
>>> event handling mechanism.
>>
>> BTW you should be able to use the new event hierarchy: it is clean (no first second…..) and a nice support for double
>> dispatch. I hope that next week I can sit with igor and we finish our journey.
>> How do you deal with event in Gaucho.
>>
>> Stef
>>>
>>> Fernando
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Alain Plantec <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Le 25/11/2011 07:39, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :
>>>>> What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other?
>>>>>
>>>>> I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to
>>>>> clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked
>>>>> on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's
>>>>> actively being done right now?
>>>> Hi Sean,
>>>> AFAIK, no deep cleaning action. nothing from my side for now.
>>>> I think they have done some refactoring around layout managing in CUIS
>>>> (SimpleMorphic).
>>>> btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Alain
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Sean
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html
>>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> <GauchoEvents-1.pdf>

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Morphic Cleanup Status

Administrator

In reply to this post by Fernando olivero-2

Fernando olivero-2 wrote

my overall impression , was that we need to stop being backward
compatible in order to create a simple Morphic-like framework for
Pharo, and start from scratch

Having worked with all three (Morphic, SimpleMorphic, and your from-scratch version), what are the tradeoffs with each? Is the complexity of SimpleMorphic, and more still Morphic, essential [1] or accidental [2]? What I'm really asking is: do you envision your version to offer similar features and power as either of the others? I (totally ignorantly) feel like we could squeeze most of the awesome power of Morphic into a *much* smaller package. Also, it'd be great to read the original Morphic papers (if you haven't already) for inspiration to let the intended liveness and directness shine through in this new project.

This work that you're doing is incredibly important. In the hallways at every conference, I hear dreams of amazing tools people have in mind (myself included), which are put on hold due to the mind-boggling complexity and uncertainty of Morphic and its future.

Let me know when there's anything I can do.
Sean

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_complexity
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidental_complexity

Cheers,
Sean