My Keynote at the Salta Conference
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Re: My Keynote at the Salta Conference
 
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On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:54 AM horrido <[hidden email]> wrote: All of these are good ideas. But they deviate from my vision. At any rate, my Hi Richard, Please note that for the people that put the money might not be the same doing it in a commercial Smalltalk rather than an open-source one. Sure, most commercial Smalltalks do offer open source licenses, but that's not the same as being an open source Smalltalk. So, I don't know what did you promise for the competition, but if it was with Pharo, it may be they only want Pharo or at least an open source Smalltalk. Best, Mariano |
Re: My Keynote at the Salta Conference
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On Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 10:27 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email] wrote:
I think, from GemTalk's perspective, we would *prefer* an open product like Pharo. But, the most important consideration is that the competition be successful. |
Re: My Keynote at the Salta Conference
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In reply to this post by horrido
Yes, as I told that would be a big deviation from the vision, but also a
way to bridge it with the community. Anyway making a pretty localized competition in a Smalltalk variant for a particular population of a specific country is also a way to promote Smalltalk and after done it will bring lessons on efforts to results ratio and community involvement. Cheers, Offray On 24/11/18 7:53, horrido wrote: > All of these are good ideas. But they deviate from my vision. At any rate, my > competition idea was a big hit in Salta, and I am committed to moving > forward with it. > > Since nobody has stepped up to the plate, David Buck will try to find time > to code the competition. However, progress will be slow because of his busy > schedule. > > And since David is not familiar with Pharo, we'll have to do the competition > in VisualWorks, after all. Perhaps in the next edition of the James > Robertson Memorial Programming Competition (hopefully in 2021 for the United > States), someone will port the VisualWorks code over to Pharo (hint, hint). > > Ah, the vicissitudes of being a competition organizer... > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for your positive and critical comments, as usual Ben. >> >> Richard I think that is important to listen to a community when reaching >> to it (I remember a talk we had where I suggested an approach closer to >> anthropology instead of marketing). Many of us value your contributions, >> despite of approaching them in a critical way. For example, I think that >> promotion is important, but popularity is not, and the later is not a >> proper measure of the effectivity of the former. As a Latin American >> (that means people born and rise Latino America, not Latinos living in >> United States) for me is really alien the North American people (that >> means people living in the North region of the American continent that >> goes from Alaska to Patagonia and beyond) is kind of obsessed with >> popularity, competition, winning and losing, at least for what popular >> media depicts (even seems that loser is kind of a big insult over >> there). I don't think that winning a competition is the best way of >> making a younger become part of collaborative open community. Also, in >> an interconnected world, I feel more inclined to volunteer my time >> helping a young person from the Global South to become part of the >> Pharo/Smalltalk community that to volunteer my time for a pretty >> localized competence in a particular place of the Global North. >> >> That being said, I think that little money can help a lot (specially in >> the Global South) and I like the idea of making young people interested >> in the offerings that Smalltalk has. The average FLOSS project has a >> media of one developer [1], so even winning one more after the >> competition is a big win. But I would try to volunteer my time in >> something that brings the gap between Pharo communities and young people >> and between the Global North and the Global South, specifically in my >> Pharo powered project, Grafoscopio. >> >> [1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-when_free_software_isnt_better.html >> >> So I'm glad that you are open to suggestions. Here come mine about how >> this could be done, but this may also become something totally different >> of your actual proposal, but, hopefully, also more global, interesting, >> long lasting and a middle point between your promotional efforts and the >> activities of this community. >> >> # The Smalltalk Global Campfire >> >> Is an immersive inclusive global experience where new people (regardless >> of age, ethnicity or gender) can participate in a Smalltalk powered >> project and get mentorship from community members and start a long >> lasting relationship with a powerful technology, Smalltalk, and the >> friendly communities around it. >> >> ## How it will work >> >> Seasoned global Smalltalkers will propose a "tent", which is a set of >> related campfire projects (one or many) directed towards newbies, >> related with programming and coding, but also connected them with other >> activities which recognize that people comes from different backgrounds, >> have different interests and that an inclusive tech community is more >> than code[2]. The projects will allow newbies to learn coding, but also >> to express and connect it with wider concerns (documentation, civic >> tech, entrepreneurship, gaming, learning, etc). >> >> [2] https://morethancode.cc/about/ >> >> Interested campers will find the different tents where they can join and >> the tent leader will prepare a set of (increasingly complex?) activities >> for the members of the tent. Campers will work in the activities on a >> weekly basis and setup and open source code repository for working >> together. >> >> Coordination language for the Global Campfire will be English for tent >> leaders, but campers can use native language for communication between >> them and for some activities (local documentation, translations) as we >> don't want to impose a unique language to become part of a community and >> we recognize active Smalltalkers from around the world that can help >> local communities, made them stronger and better connected. >> >> ## Tent medals >> >> Becoming part of a open collaborative community is mostly about being >> able to help each other and how you and the community create value for >> each other. So while this is not a competition, we recognize that small >> money can be an important incentive to keep communities dynamic. >> >> At the end of the Campfire the community will provide with Member Badges >> and Tent Medals which recognize the work done by all the participants >> and also will give a small money incentive for the tent that made the >> best work, so the tent can decide how to spend it better. The evaluation >> will be done for each Tent leader, and also two external judges. >> >> The Tent Medals will be: >> >> * 1 Gold Medal: XXX Dollars. >> * 1 Silver Medal: XYZ Dollars. >> * 1 Bronze Medal: ABC Dollars. >> >> ## Closing >> >> I really don't know about the details here: How do we assign the prices? >> There is any better place that the one referred at [2] to showcase the >> important of going beyond code in tech communities? What is the proper >> duration for the Campfire? This is just a draft, but I think that this >> is something I would like to volunteer for and serves better the need >> for new people in our community, and can be also addressed from our >> local context and particular projects while connecting more the global >> community. >> >> On 21/11/18 10:23, Ben Coman via Pharo-users wrote: > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > |
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Indeed, Lorenzo Schiavina has expressed interest in modelling a similar
competition in Italy with my competition material! This was the vision I had three years ago. Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote > Yes, as I told that would be a big deviation from the vision, but also a > way to bridge it with the community. Anyway making a pretty localized > competition in a Smalltalk variant for a particular population of a > specific country is also a way to promote Smalltalk and after done it > will bring lessons on efforts to results ratio and community involvement. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 24/11/18 7:53, horrido wrote: >> All of these are good ideas. But they deviate from my vision. At any >> rate, my >> competition idea was a big hit in Salta, and I am committed to moving >> forward with it. >> >> Since nobody has stepped up to the plate, David Buck will try to find >> time >> to code the competition. However, progress will be slow because of his >> busy >> schedule. >> >> And since David is not familiar with Pharo, we'll have to do the >> competition >> in VisualWorks, after all. Perhaps in the next edition of the James >> Robertson Memorial Programming Competition (hopefully in 2021 for the >> United >> States), someone will port the VisualWorks code over to Pharo (hint, >> hint). >> >> Ah, the vicissitudes of being a competition organizer... >> >> >> >> Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thanks for your positive and critical comments, as usual Ben. >>> >>> Richard I think that is important to listen to a community when reaching >>> to it (I remember a talk we had where I suggested an approach closer to >>> anthropology instead of marketing). Many of us value your contributions, >>> despite of approaching them in a critical way. For example, I think that >>> promotion is important, but popularity is not, and the later is not a >>> proper measure of the effectivity of the former. As a Latin American >>> (that means people born and rise Latino America, not Latinos living in >>> United States) for me is really alien the North American people (that >>> means people living in the North region of the American continent that >>> goes from Alaska to Patagonia and beyond) is kind of obsessed with >>> popularity, competition, winning and losing, at least for what popular >>> media depicts (even seems that loser is kind of a big insult over >>> there). I don't think that winning a competition is the best way of >>> making a younger become part of collaborative open community. Also, in >>> an interconnected world, I feel more inclined to volunteer my time >>> helping a young person from the Global South to become part of the >>> Pharo/Smalltalk community that to volunteer my time for a pretty >>> localized competence in a particular place of the Global North. >>> >>> That being said, I think that little money can help a lot (specially in >>> the Global South) and I like the idea of making young people interested >>> in the offerings that Smalltalk has. The average FLOSS project has a >>> media of one developer [1], so even winning one more after the >>> competition is a big win. But I would try to volunteer my time in >>> something that brings the gap between Pharo communities and young people >>> and between the Global North and the Global South, specifically in my >>> Pharo powered project, Grafoscopio. >>> >>> [1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-when_free_software_isnt_better.html >>> >>> So I'm glad that you are open to suggestions. Here come mine about how >>> this could be done, but this may also become something totally different >>> of your actual proposal, but, hopefully, also more global, interesting, >>> long lasting and a middle point between your promotional efforts and the >>> activities of this community. >>> >>> # The Smalltalk Global Campfire >>> >>> Is an immersive inclusive global experience where new people (regardless >>> of age, ethnicity or gender) can participate in a Smalltalk powered >>> project and get mentorship from community members and start a long >>> lasting relationship with a powerful technology, Smalltalk, and the >>> friendly communities around it. >>> >>> ## How it will work >>> >>> Seasoned global Smalltalkers will propose a "tent", which is a set of >>> related campfire projects (one or many) directed towards newbies, >>> related with programming and coding, but also connected them with other >>> activities which recognize that people comes from different backgrounds, >>> have different interests and that an inclusive tech community is more >>> than code[2]. The projects will allow newbies to learn coding, but also >>> to express and connect it with wider concerns (documentation, civic >>> tech, entrepreneurship, gaming, learning, etc). >>> >>> [2] https://morethancode.cc/about/ >>> >>> Interested campers will find the different tents where they can join and >>> the tent leader will prepare a set of (increasingly complex?) activities >>> for the members of the tent. Campers will work in the activities on a >>> weekly basis and setup and open source code repository for working >>> together. >>> >>> Coordination language for the Global Campfire will be English for tent >>> leaders, but campers can use native language for communication between >>> them and for some activities (local documentation, translations) as we >>> don't want to impose a unique language to become part of a community and >>> we recognize active Smalltalkers from around the world that can help >>> local communities, made them stronger and better connected. >>> >>> ## Tent medals >>> >>> Becoming part of a open collaborative community is mostly about being >>> able to help each other and how you and the community create value for >>> each other. So while this is not a competition, we recognize that small >>> money can be an important incentive to keep communities dynamic. >>> >>> At the end of the Campfire the community will provide with Member Badges >>> and Tent Medals which recognize the work done by all the participants >>> and also will give a small money incentive for the tent that made the >>> best work, so the tent can decide how to spend it better. The evaluation >>> will be done for each Tent leader, and also two external judges. >>> >>> The Tent Medals will be: >>> >>> * 1 Gold Medal: XXX Dollars. >>> * 1 Silver Medal: XYZ Dollars. >>> * 1 Bronze Medal: ABC Dollars. >>> >>> ## Closing >>> >>> I really don't know about the details here: How do we assign the prices? >>> There is any better place that the one referred at [2] to showcase the >>> important of going beyond code in tech communities? What is the proper >>> duration for the Campfire? This is just a draft, but I think that this >>> is something I would like to volunteer for and serves better the need >>> for new people in our community, and can be also addressed from our >>> local context and particular projects while connecting more the global >>> community. >>> >>> On 21/11/18 10:23, Ben Coman via Pharo-users wrote: >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html |
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In reply to this post by Richard Sargent
Of course, that's my preference, too, but I have to take whatever I can get.
I'm working against the clock and I need the very best help I can find. And, yes, the most important consideration is success. The basic philosophy I work with is this: A rising tide lifts all boats. Richard Sargent wrote > I think, from GemTalk's perspective, we would *prefer* an open product > like > Pharo. But, the most important consideration is that the competition be > successful. > > > >> Best, >> >> -- >> Mariano >> https://twitter.com/MartinezPeck >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html |
Re: My Keynote at the Salta Conference
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In reply to this post by horrido
Well the important thing is that conversations like this are happening
and we, as a community are thinking in alternative ways to promote Smalltalk, and scale such promotion, being by copying your vision, one country at the time, to by using alternative ways. I think these are important conversations. Cheers, Offray On 24/11/18 15:10, horrido wrote: > Indeed, Lorenzo Schiavina has expressed interest in modelling a similar > competition in Italy with my competition material! This was the vision I had > three years ago. > > > > Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote >> Yes, as I told that would be a big deviation from the vision, but also a >> way to bridge it with the community. Anyway making a pretty localized >> competition in a Smalltalk variant for a particular population of a >> specific country is also a way to promote Smalltalk and after done it >> will bring lessons on efforts to results ratio and community involvement. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> On 24/11/18 7:53, horrido wrote: >>> All of these are good ideas. But they deviate from my vision. At any >>> rate, my >>> competition idea was a big hit in Salta, and I am committed to moving >>> forward with it. >>> >>> Since nobody has stepped up to the plate, David Buck will try to find >>> time >>> to code the competition. However, progress will be slow because of his >>> busy >>> schedule. >>> >>> And since David is not familiar with Pharo, we'll have to do the >>> competition >>> in VisualWorks, after all. Perhaps in the next edition of the James >>> Robertson Memorial Programming Competition (hopefully in 2021 for the >>> United >>> States), someone will port the VisualWorks code over to Pharo (hint, >>> hint). >>> >>> Ah, the vicissitudes of being a competition organizer... >>> >>> >>> >>> Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your positive and critical comments, as usual Ben. >>>> >>>> Richard I think that is important to listen to a community when reaching >>>> to it (I remember a talk we had where I suggested an approach closer to >>>> anthropology instead of marketing). Many of us value your contributions, >>>> despite of approaching them in a critical way. For example, I think that >>>> promotion is important, but popularity is not, and the later is not a >>>> proper measure of the effectivity of the former. As a Latin American >>>> (that means people born and rise Latino America, not Latinos living in >>>> United States) for me is really alien the North American people (that >>>> means people living in the North region of the American continent that >>>> goes from Alaska to Patagonia and beyond) is kind of obsessed with >>>> popularity, competition, winning and losing, at least for what popular >>>> media depicts (even seems that loser is kind of a big insult over >>>> there). I don't think that winning a competition is the best way of >>>> making a younger become part of collaborative open community. Also, in >>>> an interconnected world, I feel more inclined to volunteer my time >>>> helping a young person from the Global South to become part of the >>>> Pharo/Smalltalk community that to volunteer my time for a pretty >>>> localized competence in a particular place of the Global North. >>>> >>>> That being said, I think that little money can help a lot (specially in >>>> the Global South) and I like the idea of making young people interested >>>> in the offerings that Smalltalk has. The average FLOSS project has a >>>> media of one developer [1], so even winning one more after the >>>> competition is a big win. But I would try to volunteer my time in >>>> something that brings the gap between Pharo communities and young people >>>> and between the Global North and the Global South, specifically in my >>>> Pharo powered project, Grafoscopio. >>>> >>>> [1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-when_free_software_isnt_better.html >>>> >>>> So I'm glad that you are open to suggestions. Here come mine about how >>>> this could be done, but this may also become something totally different >>>> of your actual proposal, but, hopefully, also more global, interesting, >>>> long lasting and a middle point between your promotional efforts and the >>>> activities of this community. >>>> >>>> # The Smalltalk Global Campfire >>>> >>>> Is an immersive inclusive global experience where new people (regardless >>>> of age, ethnicity or gender) can participate in a Smalltalk powered >>>> project and get mentorship from community members and start a long >>>> lasting relationship with a powerful technology, Smalltalk, and the >>>> friendly communities around it. >>>> >>>> ## How it will work >>>> >>>> Seasoned global Smalltalkers will propose a "tent", which is a set of >>>> related campfire projects (one or many) directed towards newbies, >>>> related with programming and coding, but also connected them with other >>>> activities which recognize that people comes from different backgrounds, >>>> have different interests and that an inclusive tech community is more >>>> than code[2]. The projects will allow newbies to learn coding, but also >>>> to express and connect it with wider concerns (documentation, civic >>>> tech, entrepreneurship, gaming, learning, etc). >>>> >>>> [2] https://morethancode.cc/about/ >>>> >>>> Interested campers will find the different tents where they can join and >>>> the tent leader will prepare a set of (increasingly complex?) activities >>>> for the members of the tent. Campers will work in the activities on a >>>> weekly basis and setup and open source code repository for working >>>> together. >>>> >>>> Coordination language for the Global Campfire will be English for tent >>>> leaders, but campers can use native language for communication between >>>> them and for some activities (local documentation, translations) as we >>>> don't want to impose a unique language to become part of a community and >>>> we recognize active Smalltalkers from around the world that can help >>>> local communities, made them stronger and better connected. >>>> >>>> ## Tent medals >>>> >>>> Becoming part of a open collaborative community is mostly about being >>>> able to help each other and how you and the community create value for >>>> each other. So while this is not a competition, we recognize that small >>>> money can be an important incentive to keep communities dynamic. >>>> >>>> At the end of the Campfire the community will provide with Member Badges >>>> and Tent Medals which recognize the work done by all the participants >>>> and also will give a small money incentive for the tent that made the >>>> best work, so the tent can decide how to spend it better. The evaluation >>>> will be done for each Tent leader, and also two external judges. >>>> >>>> The Tent Medals will be: >>>> >>>> * 1 Gold Medal: XXX Dollars. >>>> * 1 Silver Medal: XYZ Dollars. >>>> * 1 Bronze Medal: ABC Dollars. >>>> >>>> ## Closing >>>> >>>> I really don't know about the details here: How do we assign the prices? >>>> There is any better place that the one referred at [2] to showcase the >>>> important of going beyond code in tech communities? What is the proper >>>> duration for the Campfire? This is just a draft, but I think that this >>>> is something I would like to volunteer for and serves better the need >>>> for new people in our community, and can be also addressed from our >>>> local context and particular projects while connecting more the global >>>> community. >>>> >>>> On 21/11/18 10:23, Ben Coman via Pharo-users wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> >>> > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > |
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