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New Issue Tracker

Camillo Bruni-3
With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see
a major functionality gone for our project.
       
        https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI

I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent:
- give code critics feedback
- reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes)
- failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue
- image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue

... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable
API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.


Requirements
------------
So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:

- dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship)
- scriptable API
- file attachements

Additionally:
- programmed in ruby or python
- easily create sub-projects
...?

Issue Tracker
-------------
- I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read
        http://trac.edgewall.org/
- Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...)
        http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
- github? too simplistic no file upload
        https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues
- redmine, possible kandidate
        http://www.redmine.org/


So what is your take on this?
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Frank Shearar-3
On 8 February 2013 19:51, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see
> a major functionality gone for our project.
>
>         https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI
>
> I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent:
> - give code critics feedback
> - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes)
> - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue
> - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue
>
> ... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable
> API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.
>
>
> Requirements
> ------------
> So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:
>
> - dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship)
> - scriptable API
> - file attachements
>
> Additionally:
> - programmed in ruby or python
> - easily create sub-projects
> ...?
>
> Issue Tracker
> -------------
> - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read
>         http://trac.edgewall.org/
> - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...)
>         http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
> - github? too simplistic no file upload
>         https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues

What's too simplistic, in particular?

There's no file upload, but it does have an API and you could post
URLs to some server somewhere. What would be really cool is using the
git tools: you have a slice, you branch off master, apply the slice,
push the branch, and get github's diff.

You can signal bad pull requests by setting commit statuses on
commits: that API's pretty straightforward
(http://developer.github.com/v3/repos/statuses/). So the monkey could
apply lint rules etc., and colour the commit accordingly.

frank

> - redmine, possible kandidate
>         http://www.redmine.org/
>
>
> So what is your take on this?

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Re: New Issue Tracker

Esteban A. Maringolo
In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3
I would go for GitHub, its exposition is really good for the project.
But if file attachments (other than pictures) is a showstopper, then...

I would suggest:
* Mantis (PHP Based, but with a SOAP API) http://mantisbt.org/
We've been using it in our company since 7 years ago, and it has
proven to be really good. It's codebase is well organized too. Since a
year or so, we integrated it with our development environment (Dolphin
X6.1) by using its SOAP API (MantisConnect) and created some tool to
version to and integrate from the issue repository.

* JIRA (Java Based) a little bloated, but highly customizable, I'm
using its on-demand version this since two months ago. I'm not using
any API. No judgement yet.

Regards,

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Re: New Issue Tracker

Camillo Bruni-3
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3

On 2013-02-08, at 21:19, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8 February 2013 19:51, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see
>> a major functionality gone for our project.
>>
>>        https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI
>>
>> I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent:
>> - give code critics feedback
>> - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes)
>> - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue
>> - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue
>>
>> ... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable
>> API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.
>>
>>
>> Requirements
>> ------------
>> So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:
>>
>> - dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship)
>> - scriptable API
>> - file attachements
>>
>> Additionally:
>> - programmed in ruby or python
>> - easily create sub-projects
>> ...?
>>
>> Issue Tracker
>> -------------
>> - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read
>>        http://trac.edgewall.org/
>> - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...)
>>        http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
>> - github? too simplistic no file upload
>>        https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues
>
> What's too simplistic, in particular?
>
> There's no file upload, but it does have an API and you could post
> URLs to some server somewhere. What would be really cool is using the
> git tools: you have a slice, you branch off master, apply the slice,
> push the branch, and get github's diff.

ok, that would work for most issues, but how do we deal with changes that require
pre and post-scripts? Until we can rebuild our full image from sources we need
to have pre- and postscripts for certain critical issues. Currently these scripts are
communicated to the integrator, which is a very bad thing. I want to have that done
automatically.

=> we need file uploads for a while

we might be able to link gists into an issue. But I would prefer real files for now.
June isn't that far away and I don't want to change too many variables at the same
time.

> You can signal bad pull requests by setting commit statuses on
> commits: that API's pretty straightforward
> (http://developer.github.com/v3/repos/statuses/). So the monkey could
> apply lint rules etc., and colour the commit accordingly.

I know of all of that and it is certainly what I want in the future but:
- we do not run on git yet
- we replace our main issue tracker

so I would like to have something that works as close as possible to the existing
solution we have.
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Camillo Bruni-3
In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo

On 2013-02-08, at 21:23, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would go for GitHub, its exposition is really good for the project.
> But if file attachments (other than pictures) is a showstopper, then...

it is a show-stopper for now. A future development cycle might solve this, but
I don't want to change too many variables.

> I would suggest:
> * Mantis (PHP Based, but with a SOAP API) http://mantisbt.org/
> We've been using it in our company since 7 years ago, and it has
> proven to be really good. It's codebase is well organized too. Since a
> year or so, we integrated it with our development environment (Dolphin
> X6.1) by using its SOAP API (MantisConnect) and created some tool to
> version to and integrate from the issue repository.

Maybe it is just me, but if I look at a page like this:
http://mantisbt.org/demo/view.php?id=15921
I have to think how the heck you can make a website like this in 2012...
Then I feel more like investing a week of hacking to add a REST-API to trac :/

> * JIRA (Java Based) a little bloated, but highly customizable, I'm
> using its on-demand version this since two months ago. I'm not using
> any API. No judgement yet.


JIRA is pure overkill for me, yes it might solve a lot of issue and certainly
nice features, but I fear it is really too much
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Stéphane Ducasse

On Feb 8, 2013, at 9:47 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

>
> On 2013-02-08, at 21:23, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would go for GitHub, its exposition is really good for the project.
>> But if file attachments (other than pictures) is a showstopper, then...
>
> it is a show-stopper for now. A future development cycle might solve this, but
> I don't want to change too many variables.
>
>> I would suggest:
>> * Mantis (PHP Based, but with a SOAP API) http://mantisbt.org/
>> We've been using it in our company since 7 years ago, and it has
>> proven to be really good. It's codebase is well organized too. Since a
>> year or so, we integrated it with our development environment (Dolphin
>> X6.1) by using its SOAP API (MantisConnect) and created some tool to
>> version to and integrate from the issue repository.
>
> Maybe it is just me, but if I look at a page like this:
> http://mantisbt.org/demo/view.php?id=15921

we used it for squeak and I never liked it.

> I have to think how the heck you can make a website like this in 2012...
> Then I feel more like investing a week of hacking to add a REST-API to trac :/
>
>> * JIRA (Java Based) a little bloated, but highly customizable, I'm
>> using its on-demand version this since two months ago. I'm not using
>> any API. No judgement yet.
>
>
> JIRA is pure overkill for me, yes it might solve a lot of issue and certainly
> nice features, but I fear it is really too much


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Re: New Issue Tracker

Esteban A. Maringolo
(regarding Mantis)

2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.

It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
argue on that :)

But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.

We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked,
and moving off is not an option by now.

On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA
(some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).

Regards,

Esteban A. Maringolo

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Re: New Issue Tracker

Camillo Bruni-3

On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (regarding Mantis)
>
> 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
>
> It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
> argue on that :)
>
> But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
>
> We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked,
> and moving off is not an option by now.
>
> On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA
> (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).

true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github... :D

Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should be
filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem for the
integrators ;)
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Benjamin Pollack-2
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 04:04 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

>
> On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > (regarding Mantis)
> >
> > 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> >> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
> >
> > It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
> > argue on that :)
> >
> > But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
> >
> > We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked,
> > and moving off is not an option by now.
> >
> > On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA
> > (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
>
> true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github...
> :D
>
> Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should
> be
> filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem
> for the
> integrators ;)


Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On
Demand account.  It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has
custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a
version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a
Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version).  I
know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues,
but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of
the other options.  Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from
Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.

I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been
programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence;
giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.

--Benjamin

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Re: New Issue Tracker

Camillo Bruni-3

On 2013-02-08, at 22:10, Benjamin Pollack <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 04:04 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>
>> On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (regarding Mantis)
>>>
>>> 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
>>>
>>> It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
>>> argue on that :)
>>>
>>> But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
>>>
>>> We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked,
>>> and moving off is not an option by now.
>>>
>>> On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA
>>> (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
>>
>> true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github...
>> :D
>>
>> Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should
>> be
>> filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem
>> for the
>> integrators ;)
>
>
> Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On
> Demand account.  It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has
> custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a
> version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a
> Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version).  I
> know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues,
> but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of
> the other options.  Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from
> Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.

Fog Creek, rings a bell... right the Trello guys ;) that's a very good
start ;)

> I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been
> programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence;
> giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.

I am evaluating it right now ;) looks nice so far.

Just for the record, even though I am right now the only one driving this
conversation I am by far not the person to decide ;) but I hope I can at least
filter out some rusty solutions...
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo

On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (regarding Mantis)
>
> 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
>
> It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
> argue on that :)
>
> But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
>

But if you look at it.. they published statistics for Squeak, and
it was something like 10 people used it in 12 months on 50 bugs
(or something like that).

We closed >1500 in not even 10 months… the software used as
a issue tracker has to be some kind of influence on that.

        Marcus


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Re: New Issue Tracker

Eliot Miranda-2


On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (regarding Mantis)
>
> 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
>
> It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
> argue on that :)
>
> But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
>

But if you look at it.. they published statistics for Squeak, and
it was something like 10 people used it in 12 months on 50 bugs
(or something like that).

We closed >1500 in not even 10 months… the software used as
a issue tracker has to be some kind of influence on that.

That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate than that but it isn't tracked on the issue tracker, because.......
we mostly don't use an issue tracker.
 

        Marcus





--
best,
Eliot
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Camillo Bruni-3

On 2013-02-08, at 23:30, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (regarding Mantis)
>>>
>>> 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
>>>
>>> It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
>>> argue on that :)
>>>
>>> But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
>>>
>>
>> But if you look at it.. they published statistics for Squeak, and
>> it was something like 10 people used it in 12 months on 50 bugs
>> (or something like that).
>>
>> We closed >1500 in not even 10 months… the software used as
>> a issue tracker has to be some kind of influence on that.
>>
>
> That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a
> much higher rate than that but it isn't tracked on the issue tracker,
> because.......


> we mostly don't use an issue tracker.

sigh! which is impressive in 2013...
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by Benjamin Pollack-2

On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Benjamin Pollack <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On
> Demand account.  It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has
> custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a
> version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a
> Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version).  I
> know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues,
> but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of
> the other options.  Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from
> Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
>

That sound very interesting! I will play with it (I did already in the past a little)

> I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been
> programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence;
> giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.

:-) 1996… I think I stumbled on it in 1997.

Considering that many now e.g. at  RMoD where perfect eToys target age (and younger)
back then… strange.

        Marcus


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Re: New Issue Tracker

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3

On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>>
>>
>> That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a
>> much higher rate

Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.

        Marcus


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Re: New Issue Tracker

Eliot Miranda-2


On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>>
>>
>> That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a
>> much higher rate

Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.

I'm pretty  sure [ ;) ], even though I don't have the figures (mainly due to us not using an issue tracker).  How would Craig provide a full list of bugs without an issue tracker?
 

        Marcus





--
best,
Eliot
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Re: New Issue Tracker

Frank Shearar-3
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a
>>> much higher rate
>
> Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.

Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly
surprising.

Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know
from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.

frank

>         Marcus
>
>

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Re: New Issue Tracker

Marcus Denker-4

On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a
>>>> much higher rate
>>
>> Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
>
> Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly
> surprising.
>
> Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know
> from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
>

It is a matter of someone doing it.

        Marcus


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Re: New Issue Tracker

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
In reply to this post by Benjamin Pollack-2

On 08 Feb 2013, at 22:10, Benjamin Pollack <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 04:04 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>
>> On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (regarding Mantis)
>>>
>>> 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
>>>
>>> It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't
>>> argue on that :)
>>>
>>> But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
>>>
>>> We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked,
>>> and moving off is not an option by now.
>>>
>>> On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA
>>> (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
>>
>> true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github...
>> :D
>>
>> Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should
>> be
>> filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem
>> for the
>> integrators ;)
>
>
> Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On
> Demand account.  It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has
> custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a
> version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a
> Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version).  I
> know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues,
> but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of
> the other options.  Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from
> Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
>
> I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been
> programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence;
> giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
>
> --Benjamin

Very interesting offer indeed.
Would be very cool.

--
Sven Van Caekenberghe
http://stfx.eu
Smalltalk is the Red Pill


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Re: New Issue Tracker

Frank Shearar-3
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
On 8 February 2013 22:51, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not a valid comparison.  In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a
>>>>> much higher rate
>>>
>>> Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
>>
>> Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly
>> surprising.
>>
>> Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know
>> from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
>>
>
> It is a matter of someone doing it.

... and convincing people to do it is called education. Note my use of
the word "partly". Anyway, I'm not sure why you're getting stuck into
this. You sound annoyed. How about we get back to the topic?

Mantis is disgustingly ugly, but it does work. Trac is highly
customisable (we have extensively modified its workflow at my work),
allows you to upload files, and so on. It's not exactly pretty either.

frank

>         Marcus
>
>

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