New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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you need gtk3-devel?
weird... you should be ok without. We need to check that. Esteban On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Le 24/09/2013 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >> >> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> >>>> I am wondering. How far are we from dropping Morphic for good? >>> >>> Far. >> >> yes, we still need a lot of work. >> but I'm working on made a release so others can collaborate :) >> >>> >>>> By the way, is this the goal? >>> >>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations that a native binding >>> will not support. >> >> the objective is to have an alternative. >> now, we are running morphs inside mars windows (with athens, etc.)... so there would not be a problem there :) > > Oh, this is how you are doing it. > > I tried Mars but my 64bits ubuntu makes installing the required libs (gtk3-devel) a bit harder than expected. > > Thierry > >>> >>> Stef >>> >>>>> Nope! I should learn how to do that :P I'll try to do it this week. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Hi Carla, >>>>> >>>>> this is cool ! Is there a ready Pharo + Mars image built by jenkins server ? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Laurent >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Carla F. Griggio <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone! >>>>> I want to let you know that I've just posted a screencast in my blog about the new Mars Package Browser and Test Runner. >>>>> These examples are not really intended as being the definitive package browser or test runner, but to start experiencing how is it to build a real application using Mars and to showcase some widgets. Anyway, it's cool :) The Package browser is not so different to the system browser example I showed before, but the Test Runner is definitely my favorite example so far. >>>>> >>>>> I give more details in the screencast and the blog post. Any feedback is appreciated! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Carla. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by Goubier Thierry
>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations that a native binding
>> will not support. > > But could a Spec subset (or Spec itself?) target Mars? this is the idea. We should be able to reuse the composition logic of spec object. Stef |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
I followed the instructions in another mail.
Basically, it fails trying to load libgtk3 Thierry Le 24/09/2013 15:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : > you need gtk3-devel? > weird... you should be ok without. We need to check that. > > Esteban > > On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> >> >> Le 24/09/2013 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>> >>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> I am wondering. How far are we from dropping Morphic for good? >>>> >>>> Far. >>> >>> yes, we still need a lot of work. >>> but I'm working on made a release so others can collaborate :) >>> >>>> >>>>> By the way, is this the goal? >>>> >>>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations that a native binding >>>> will not support. >>> >>> the objective is to have an alternative. >>> now, we are running morphs inside mars windows (with athens, etc.)... so there would not be a problem there :) >> >> Oh, this is how you are doing it. >> >> I tried Mars but my 64bits ubuntu makes installing the required libs (gtk3-devel) a bit harder than expected. >> >> Thierry >> >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>>>> Nope! I should learn how to do that :P I'll try to do it this week. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Carla, >>>>>> >>>>>> this is cool ! Is there a ready Pharo + Mars image built by jenkins server ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Laurent >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Carla F. Griggio <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi everyone! >>>>>> I want to let you know that I've just posted a screencast in my blog about the new Mars Package Browser and Test Runner. >>>>>> These examples are not really intended as being the definitive package browser or test runner, but to start experiencing how is it to build a real application using Mars and to showcase some widgets. Anyway, it's cool :) The Package browser is not so different to the system browser example I showed before, but the Test Runner is definitely my favorite example so far. >>>>>> >>>>>> I give more details in the screencast and the blog post. Any feedback is appreciated! >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Carla. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> > > > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 |
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yes... if you have it (for 32bits), you should be ok.
but maybe you need to change the path. On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:28 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: > I followed the instructions in another mail. > > Basically, it fails trying to load libgtk3 > > Thierry > > Le 24/09/2013 15:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >> you need gtk3-devel? >> weird... you should be ok without. We need to check that. >> >> Esteban >> >> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Le 24/09/2013 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>>> >>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I am wondering. How far are we from dropping Morphic for good? >>>>> >>>>> Far. >>>> >>>> yes, we still need a lot of work. >>>> but I'm working on made a release so others can collaborate :) >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> By the way, is this the goal? >>>>> >>>>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations that a native binding >>>>> will not support. >>>> >>>> the objective is to have an alternative. >>>> now, we are running morphs inside mars windows (with athens, etc.)... so there would not be a problem there :) >>> >>> Oh, this is how you are doing it. >>> >>> I tried Mars but my 64bits ubuntu makes installing the required libs (gtk3-devel) a bit harder than expected. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>>>> Nope! I should learn how to do that :P I'll try to do it this week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Carla, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this is cool ! Is there a ready Pharo + Mars image built by jenkins server ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laurent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Carla F. Griggio <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi everyone! >>>>>>> I want to let you know that I've just posted a screencast in my blog about the new Mars Package Browser and Test Runner. >>>>>>> These examples are not really intended as being the definitive package browser or test runner, but to start experiencing how is it to build a real application using Mars and to showcase some widgets. Anyway, it's cool :) The Package browser is not so different to the system browser example I showed before, but the Test Runner is definitely my favorite example so far. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I give more details in the screencast and the blog post. Any feedback is appreciated! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Carla. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by laurent laffont
<[hidden email]> wrote: > --089e0122eca46a487504e71ea2a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Same error here on ArchLinux. > > Laurent > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:06 PM, kilon > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > yeah it fails with error after executing : > > > > Gofer it url: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/estebanlm/Mars/main'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfMars'; load. > > > > ConfigurationOfMars loadBleedingEdge: 'All'. > > > > "Error : nil cannot be found in Smalltalk dictionary" > > > > here is the stack trace > > > > http://pastebin.com/yyHSVntN <http://pastebin.com/yyHSVntN> > > > > Also same error in OSX -- Mark |
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
now this sounds super interesting stuff, mixing moprhic with native guis. I hear that GTK3 is mostly Cairo based, and so is hmtl rendering for Firefox. Looks like Athens will play a rather crucial role to the future of Morphic and Pharo. But of course thats easier said than done :) And the fact that Morphic is written in smalltalk and not just another C library, is hard to beat for customization and cross platform development. For example GTK is a disaster on Macos and Windows. With many problems, stability wise. QT is abit better but I suspect is big and complex , especially taking into account they had to design their own programming language for designing Graphical Elements known as QML ( a kind of javascript eeeewwww :D ). Oh QML can do live coding, sound familiar ? ;) but QT come with its own designers , and a wealth of tools, juicy documentation and good support even on mobile platforms. So an alliance of QT and Pharo may actually be quite more beneficial than an alliance with Windows GUI API or MacOS Cocoa or GTK . As far as I have seen QT look and behaves native in all major OSes. The only problem is that QT is a C++ library and AFAIK pharo FFIs do not support C++ libraries because of name mangling. But this is something that the FFI experts could clarify. |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
I changed it to libgtk-3.so.0 instead of libgtk-3.so.0.600.0 (on ubuntu
13.04 it's libgtk-3.so.0.600.4 :)). However MarsTestRunner fail with a MNU: MarsListModel>>announce: and I'm chasing a sizingPolicy nil in MarsLayout for MarsWorkspace Thierry Le 24/09/2013 15:28, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : > yes... if you have it (for 32bits), you should be ok. > > but maybe you need to change the path. > > On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:28 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I followed the instructions in another mail. >> >> Basically, it fails trying to load libgtk3 >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 24/09/2013 15:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>> you need gtk3-devel? >>> weird... you should be ok without. We need to check that. >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 24/09/2013 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am wondering. How far are we from dropping Morphic for good? >>>>>> >>>>>> Far. >>>>> >>>>> yes, we still need a lot of work. >>>>> but I'm working on made a release so others can collaborate :) >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> By the way, is this the goal? >>>>>> >>>>>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations that a native binding >>>>>> will not support. >>>>> >>>>> the objective is to have an alternative. >>>>> now, we are running morphs inside mars windows (with athens, etc.)... so there would not be a problem there :) >>>> >>>> Oh, this is how you are doing it. >>>> >>>> I tried Mars but my 64bits ubuntu makes installing the required libs (gtk3-devel) a bit harder than expected. >>>> >>>> Thierry >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope! I should learn how to do that :P I'll try to do it this week. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Carla, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> this is cool ! Is there a ready Pharo + Mars image built by jenkins server ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laurent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Carla F. Griggio <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi everyone! >>>>>>>> I want to let you know that I've just posted a screencast in my blog about the new Mars Package Browser and Test Runner. >>>>>>>> These examples are not really intended as being the definitive package browser or test runner, but to start experiencing how is it to build a real application using Mars and to showcase some widgets. Anyway, it's cool :) The Package browser is not so different to the system browser example I showed before, but the Test Runner is definitely my favorite example so far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I give more details in the screencast and the blog post. Any feedback is appreciated! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Carla. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thierry Goubier >>>> CEA list >>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>> France >>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> > > > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 |
Re: [PROVENANCE INTERNET] Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Ok, corrected MarsWorkspace and lost my changes because, after hitting a
bug in the Workspace menu, I killed the window and Pharo with it :O Looks like it's working, great work! Thierry Le 24/09/2013 16:03, Goubier Thierry a écrit : > I changed it to libgtk-3.so.0 instead of libgtk-3.so.0.600.0 (on ubuntu > 13.04 it's libgtk-3.so.0.600.4 :)). > > However MarsTestRunner fail with a MNU: MarsListModel>>announce: and I'm > chasing a sizingPolicy nil in MarsLayout for MarsWorkspace > > Thierry > > Le 24/09/2013 15:28, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >> yes... if you have it (for 32bits), you should be ok. >> >> but maybe you need to change the path. >> >> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:28 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> >>> I followed the instructions in another mail. >>> >>> Basically, it fails trying to load libgtk3 >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> Le 24/09/2013 15:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>>> you need gtk3-devel? >>>> weird... you should be ok without. We need to check that. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Goubier Thierry >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 24/09/2013 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Stéphane Ducasse >>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am wondering. How far are we from dropping Morphic for good? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Far. >>>>>> >>>>>> yes, we still need a lot of work. >>>>>> but I'm working on made a release so others can collaborate :) >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By the way, is this the goal? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations >>>>>>> that a native binding >>>>>>> will not support. >>>>>> >>>>>> the objective is to have an alternative. >>>>>> now, we are running morphs inside mars windows (with athens, >>>>>> etc.)... so there would not be a problem there :) >>>>> >>>>> Oh, this is how you are doing it. >>>>> >>>>> I tried Mars but my 64bits ubuntu makes installing the required >>>>> libs (gtk3-devel) a bit harder than expected. >>>>> >>>>> Thierry >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nope! I should learn how to do that :P I'll try to do it this >>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM, laurent laffont >>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Carla, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> this is cool ! Is there a ready Pharo + Mars image built by >>>>>>>>> jenkins server ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laurent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Carla F. Griggio >>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi everyone! >>>>>>>>> I want to let you know that I've just posted a screencast in my >>>>>>>>> blog about the new Mars Package Browser and Test Runner. >>>>>>>>> These examples are not really intended as being the definitive >>>>>>>>> package browser or test runner, but to start experiencing how >>>>>>>>> is it to build a real application using Mars and to showcase >>>>>>>>> some widgets. Anyway, it's cool :) The Package browser is not >>>>>>>>> so different to the system browser example I showed before, but >>>>>>>>> the Test Runner is definitely my favorite example so far. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I give more details in the screencast and the blog post. Any >>>>>>>>> feedback is appreciated! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Carla. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thierry Goubier >>>>> CEA list >>>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >>>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>>> France >>>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >> >> >> >> > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by kilon
When one wants to do something non-standard, Morphic is insanely powerful. The only issue I have is cleaning and refactoring. I think the underlying idea is brilliant. You have to export the functionality you want to use as C functions. Not that hard, but I've only tried it for proof-of-concepts
Cheers,
Sean |
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I agree, Morphic is quite messy but its design is very solid. Its just like any huge library need to go under a cleanup phase and be improved.
I checked to find out if QT can be accessed from C , the short answer is no. So move along nothing to see here. I dont know what you mean by "export the functionality to C functions" if that means rewriting code from C++ to C , then I will have to pass, QT is huge , even if we utilized the whole pharo community we would not be able to do this. I think focusing on morphic and existing functionality of Mars will do for now. The way I see it best candidate so far is GTK. Not so good on windows and macos , but better than having to maintain separate classes for windoom , macos and linux. And I am not even sure if there many pharoers on windoom anyway, I rarely see it mentioned here. Another interesting candidate is Clutter , its based on Opengl , its a C library and seems to even support OpenGL ES for mobile platform and of course compiles on windooom, macos and linux . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(toolkit) I also heard its quite small and easy to use , so maybe morphic could be based on it. I have not used it myself so I cant vouch for it.
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er... of course Mars is designed to alllow the backend you want to plug in, but we thinkthat Gtk3 is ok for Linux and good enough for Windows. For OSX we have the Cocoa backend. So I do not understand this line of argument :) Esteban On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:42 PM, kilon <[hidden email]> wrote: I agree, Morphic is quite messy but its design is very solid. Its just like |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by kilon
I saw
And I'm curious to know how they do it because one of these days we will have :) Stef On Sep 24, 2013, at 10:42 PM, kilon <[hidden email]> wrote: I agree, Morphic is quite messy but its design is very solid. Its just like |
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Personally I don't care that much to be frank with you. I think the age of "native look" has passed and failed miserably. All the rage now is custom look guis, graphics app are strictly custom look, sound and music apps are strictly custom look and web apps of course as well. Only business apps are remaining stuborn stuck in the past.
Its no mistake that the clear winner on the GUI department is by far QT . Take a look even at iOS even iOS dropped the macos look for its own custom look. Custom look is everywhere. Even macos embraces it with Launchpad, Time machine and who knows what the future holds. Windoom has suprised us with Metro, probably not a success but seems that even the sloth giant Micro$oft has taken notice where things are heading. QT is the king of it because it has created a very flexible API which is not only capable in looking native but also very good in customisation. Well the king is web design here, but since its not considered desktop technology I will say QT for the record. Saying all that, I am not a believer of GTK. And I have heard that on windows people prefer to commit murder than use GTK. GTK is mainly linux orientated and I dont even think its even on Android. There was a bug on macos about tablet with pressure sensitivity and several other bugs with gimp and mypaint, the bottom line was that there were not enough developers for either windows or macos. GTK3 looks like diffirent story though but I still have my doubts. Looks more flexible, better designed but still does not change the fact that it lack people on non linux platforms to maintain it. And its a rather huge lib. I am interested into Clutter because my main interest is Graphics and OpenGL, so I have my own personal agenda on this. Now if you want to support GTK3 on windoom, I say go for it, its not as if you have a better choice. Maintaining a windoom port with using windoom apis will be much more of a pain anyway. So GTK3 certainly makes sense for me. I just dont see myself abandoning morphic any time soon for it. At least not this century. I prefer smalltalk to C bugs anyday.
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In reply to this post by kilon
kilon wrote:
How about using a C++ interface generator like SWIG?I agree, Morphic is quite messy but its design is very solid. Its just like any huge library need to go under a cleanup phase and be improved. I checked to find out if QT can be accessed from C , the short answer is no. So move along nothing to see here. I dont know what you mean by "export the functionality to C functions" if that means rewriting code from C++ to C , then I will have to pass, QT is huge , even if we utilized the whole pharo community we would not be able to do this. I think focusing on morphic and existing functionality of Mars will do for now. The way I see it best candidate so far is GTK. Not so good on windows and macos , but better than having to maintain separate classes for windoom , macos and linux. And I am not even sure if there many pharoers on windoom anyway, I rarely see it mentioned here. Another interesting candidate is Clutter , its based on Opengl , its a C library and seems to even support OpenGL ES for mobile platform and of course compiles on windooom, macos and linux . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(toolkit) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(toolkit)> I also heard its quite small and easy to use , so maybe morphic could be based on it. I have not used it myself so I cant vouch for it. Sean P. DeNigris wrote http://www.swig.org/exec.html http://is.muni.cz/th/256594/fi_m/thesis.pdf (note I haven't used this, I've just been browsing around for interest) cheers -ben |
Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by kilon
On Sep 24, 2013, at 10:42 , kilon <[hidden email]> wrote: > I agree, Morphic is quite messy but its design is very solid. Its just like > any huge library need to go under a cleanup phase and be improved. Depends on what you want you mean by solid. For exploratory visual programming, it's a solid design. For building GUIs from standard components and a clear separation of responsibilities between a morphs constituent parts (*parts* you say? who needs that, we're all morphs!), it's much less solid than say, MVC/MVP. Cheers, Henry |
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Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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Am 25.09.2013 um 10:25 schrieb Henrik Johansen <[hidden email]>: Agreed. This week I tried to do morphic the second time in my life. There are a lot of things that I consider to be annoying but then it is also easy to combine and display stuff. Took me not too much time to have a visual representation of my scanner cache tool  Was pretty much fun in the end. Norbert
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Re: [Esug-list] New Mars examples: Package Browser and Test Runner
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Works for me on Fedora 64 bit. I only had to install gtk3.i686 and
change library path (to /lib/libgtk-3.so.0), Where can I find the icons directory? Cheers, -- Pavel 2013/9/24 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>: > yes... if you have it (for 32bits), you should be ok. > > but maybe you need to change the path. > > On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:28 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I followed the instructions in another mail. >> >> Basically, it fails trying to load libgtk3 >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 24/09/2013 15:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>> you need gtk3-devel? >>> weird... you should be ok without. We need to check that. >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 24/09/2013 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am wondering. How far are we from dropping Morphic for good? >>>>>> >>>>>> Far. >>>>> >>>>> yes, we still need a lot of work. >>>>> but I'm working on made a release so others can collaborate :) >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> By the way, is this the goal? >>>>>> >>>>>> No I do not think so because they are plenty of experimentations that a native binding >>>>>> will not support. >>>>> >>>>> the objective is to have an alternative. >>>>> now, we are running morphs inside mars windows (with athens, etc.)... so there would not be a problem there :) >>>> >>>> Oh, this is how you are doing it. >>>> >>>> I tried Mars but my 64bits ubuntu makes installing the required libs (gtk3-devel) a bit harder than expected. >>>> >>>> Thierry >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stef >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope! I should learn how to do that :P I'll try to do it this week. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Carla, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> this is cool ! Is there a ready Pharo + Mars image built by jenkins server ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laurent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Carla F. Griggio <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi everyone! >>>>>>>> I want to let you know that I've just posted a screencast in my blog about the new Mars Package Browser and Test Runner. >>>>>>>> These examples are not really intended as being the definitive package browser or test runner, but to start experiencing how is it to build a real application using Mars and to showcase some widgets. Anyway, it's cool :) The Package browser is not so different to the system browser example I showed before, but the Test Runner is definitely my favorite example so far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I give more details in the screencast and the blog post. Any feedback is appreciated! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Carla. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thierry Goubier >>>> CEA list >>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>> France >>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> > > |
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In reply to this post by Ben Coman
"How about using a C++ interface generator like SWIG?
http://www.swig.org/exec.html http://is.muni.cz/th/256594/fi_m/thesis.pdf (note I haven't used this, I've just been browsing around for interest) cheers -ben" its not that simple. Swig is like a template thingy that generates wrapper automagically for programming languages. In this case it would require that Pharo supports C++ libs in some way which I think it does not. For example Swing is quite popular with python , cpython to be exactly , but cpython has an API for wrapping both C and C++ code. So you need a language that already offers support for C++ libs in order to be able to use SWIG. "Depends on what you want you mean by solid. For exploratory visual programming, it's a solid design. For building GUIs from standard components and a clear separation of responsibilities between a morphs constituent parts (*parts* you say? who needs that, we're all morphs!), it's much less solid than say, MVC/MVP. Cheers, Henry " I am nowhere near to classify myself as a "morphic coder" but I am not a big fan of MVC . The idea of dividing an element to 3 things Model , View and Controller and essentially having 3 objects for every graphic element does not resonate with me very well. But in the end as I say I am not in a position to compare it with MVC libs, and I definetly dont like the design of some of the elements. Treemorph looks weird to me, for example it has a selection index but index apply only for visible / not expanded components which for me defys the meaning of having a tree hierarchy moph in the first place. Progress bar has not been easy to figure out either. What I do like about morphic is that everything is a morph and you can make compex guis out of very simple moprhs and the fact that you can do that by mouse. And of course visual coding too. If it was in my hand completely I would made all those morph as simple as possible. I get the feeling that each morph tries to solve too many problems. "Agreed. This week I tried to do morphic the second time in my life. There are a lot of things that I consider to be annoying but then it is also easy to combine and display stuff. Took me not too much time to have a visual representation of my scanner cache tool" exactly and I really like your visual , shows that morphic is plenty capable of making very modern graphics. I see even anti-aliasing which is very nice. I agree that Mars can play a crucial role for people who are already familiar with GTK and Cocoa , certainly it will be one more motivation to use pharo. So definetly Morphic and Mars can hapilly coexist together. Its kinda ironic you know, I was an ex cpython coder, I would love to have a cpython GUI API but there is none. Even on 1/10th of the capabilities of Morphic. All popular GUI frameworks for cpython are C/C++ wrapped libs. And to make things even funnier the standard gui that cpython comes with is called Tkinter and even though it is made in a scripting language its not python , its TK. And cpython is like what 100 times more popular to pharo, 1000 ? So yes I am glad Pharo has moprhic and that is so deep , even if it has its quirks. Actually besides TK I dont know of another dynamic language that has a GUI api written in the language that uses it. And mind you Tkinter is nowhere near Morphic. So definetly shows that Morphic is quite an achievenment. |
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