There's surely some microoptimizations possible, but one big (theoretical at least) macro-level enhancement is: - Currently, morphs by default do not respect the damagerect when rendering submorphs, instead clipping by its own clippingBounds. Which means however small the damage to the window was, all submorphs WILL be redrawn. Attached is a changeset which changes this, instead intersecting the Morphs clippingBounds with the Canvas' current clipRect. Sadly, this will NOT improve typing performance by itself, as another problem here is Morphs reporting waaaay too big damage rects in alot of cases. (try evaluating (Preferences preferenceAt: #debugShowDamage) preferenceValue: true, and see the damage reported by a single keypress...) This has to be rectified on a Morph by Morph basis, as well as making the displayOn: method use the clipRect intelligently (see MultiNewParagraph >> displayOn:using:at: for an example of this ). Personally, I'm not affected enough to fuel the passion to do this, but if anyone are, I suspect the steps described above are the ones which will yield the best results, performancewise. So what's the changeset currently good for? (Non-fastForMorphic)resizing of a simple morph that occludes only some of another SystemWindow's submorphs should see some improvements. Resizing a window with nothing below will probably suffer abit due to the extra operation/garbage from the intersect: though. I haven't had access to a slow enough machine to have visual confirmation, nor any automated tests to test resizing performance, so take it with a grain of salt as this is purely in theory :) (Or file it in and do a quick visual check of the effects described above if you're on a slow machine) Cheers, Henry On 18.05.2009 16:08, Adrian Lienhard wrote: I also noticed the slow responsiveness (and I am on a quite fast machine). Adrian On May 18, 2009, at 15:57 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:Damien, In a word, WOW. Have you changed the desktop menus somehow? A left click now (I _think_ this is new) gives me a find-window menu, and it takes a right click to get the world menu, which looks different to me. Wait - this might just be themes? I seleected Vistary and things are back to "normal." One snag: I find this image to very sluggish on typing. In fairness I am running Ubuntu on an older machine that isn't the fastest, but it is still far more sluggish than even my recent web image (10303), and that (I think) has lost some speed too. Sorry to keep harping on this, but I type pretty fast (enough to draw complaints in a crowded room). Maybe there is so much noise because every third key is the backspace :) The anti-aliased fonts are wonderful, but for me at least, snappy response to the keyboard is more important. Having both would be great! Bill ________________________________________ From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] ] On Behalf Of Damien Cassou [[hidden email]] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:02 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo based on core 10309 with antialiased fonts On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Adrian Lienhard [hidden email] wrote:I agree with Lukas, Bill, and Simon (that is, to change the default font to DejaVu Sans).Ok, here is the new version. What do you think? font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 10. codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. Preferences setListFontTo: font. Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project submorphsrespectingdamagerect.st (3K) Download Attachment |
2009/5/19 Henrik Sperre Johansen <[hidden email]>:
> FreetypeFont rendering is alot slower than StrikeFont rendering. > [...] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=832 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=833 -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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henrik
May be we can find a slow machine for you :) if this could fuel your passion to fix that. Having a fast UI is still really important. Stef On May 19, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > FreetypeFont rendering is alot slower than StrikeFont rendering. > There's surely some microoptimizations possible, but one big > (theoretical at least) macro-level enhancement is: > - Currently, morphs by default do not respect the damagerect when > rendering submorphs, instead clipping by its own clippingBounds. > Which means however small the damage to the window was, all > submorphs WILL be redrawn. > Attached is a changeset which changes this, instead intersecting the > Morphs clippingBounds with the Canvas' current clipRect. > > Sadly, this will NOT improve typing performance by itself, as > another problem here is Morphs reporting waaaay too big damage rects > in alot of cases. (try evaluating (Preferences preferenceAt: > #debugShowDamage) preferenceValue: true, and see the damage reported > by a single keypress...) > This has to be rectified on a Morph by Morph basis, as well as > making the displayOn: method use the clipRect intelligently (see > MultiNewParagraph >> displayOn:using:at: for an example of this ). > Personally, I'm not affected enough to fuel the passion to do this, > but if anyone are, I suspect the steps described above are the ones > which will yield the best results, performancewise. > > So what's the changeset currently good for? (Non- > fastForMorphic)resizing of a simple morph that occludes only some of > another SystemWindow's submorphs should see some improvements. > Resizing a window with nothing below will probably suffer abit due > to the extra operation/garbage from the intersect: though. > I haven't had access to a slow enough machine to have visual > confirmation, nor any automated tests to test resizing performance, > so take it with a grain of salt as this is purely in theory :) (Or > file it in and do a quick visual check of the effects described > above if you're on a slow machine) > > Cheers, > Henry > > > On 18.05.2009 16:08, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >> >> I also noticed the slow responsiveness (and I am on a quite fast >> machine). >> Adrian >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 15:57 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >> >>> Damien, >>> >>> In a word, WOW. >>> >>> Have you changed the desktop menus somehow? A left click now (I >>> _think_ this is new) gives me a find-window menu, and it takes a >>> right click to get the world menu, which looks different to me. >>> Wait - this might just be themes? I seleected Vistary and things >>> are back to "normal." >>> >>> >>> One snag: I find this image to very sluggish on typing. In fairness >>> I am running Ubuntu on an older machine that isn't the fastest, but >>> it is still far more sluggish than even my recent web image (10303), >>> and that (I think) has lost some speed too. Sorry to keep harping >>> on this, but I type pretty fast (enough to draw complaints in a >>> crowded room). Maybe there is so much noise because every third key >>> is the backspace :) >>> >>> The anti-aliased fonts are wonderful, but for me at least, snappy >>> response to the keyboard is more important. Having both would be >>> great! >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Damien Cassou [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:02 AM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo based on core 10309 with >>> antialiased fonts >>> >>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I agree with Lukas, Bill, and Simon (that is, to change the default >>>> font to DejaVu Sans). >>>> >>> Ok, here is the new version. What do you think? >>> >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 10. >>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>> >>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> > > < > submorphsrespectingdamagerect > .st>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a couple settings:
Preferences enable: #halosEnabled; enable: #swapMouseButtons; disable: #gradientMenu. Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: >> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically used in >> print only, not in user interfaces. > > If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently > use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, > please tell me. > > font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. > codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. > Preferences setListFontTo: font. > Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. > Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. > Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. > Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. > font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. > Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
On May 20, 2009, at 16:30 , Damien Pollet wrote: > I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a > couple settings: > > Preferences > enable: #halosEnabled; > enable: #swapMouseButtons; > disable: #gradientMenu. > > Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back > on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and > linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is > windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? Better would be to make it dependent on OSPlatform current. Adrian > > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>> used in >>> print only, not in user interfaces. >> >> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently >> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >> please tell me. >> >> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >> popular by not having them." James Iry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
I remember getting shot-down on squeak-dev for that suggestion a long time
ago :-) Also, on windows, using a new vm used to toggle the vm button mapping. Not sure if that happens any more though! Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Lienhard" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo based on core 10309 with antialiasedfonts > > On May 20, 2009, at 16:30 , Damien Pollet wrote: > >> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >> couple settings: >> >> Preferences >> enable: #halosEnabled; >> enable: #swapMouseButtons; >> disable: #gradientMenu. >> >> Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back >> on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and >> linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is >> windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? > > Better would be to make it dependent on OSPlatform current. > > Adrian > > >> >> >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou >> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>>> used in >>>> print only, not in user interfaces. >>> >>> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently >>> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >>> please tell me. >>> >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard
>
> Better would be to make it dependent on OSPlatform current. +1 Mike _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Damien Pollet
This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons
so what the other think? Stef On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a > couple settings: > > Preferences > enable: #halosEnabled; > enable: #swapMouseButtons; > disable: #gradientMenu. > > Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back > on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and > linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is > windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>> used in >>> print only, not in user interfaces. >> >> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently >> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >> please tell me. >> >> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >> popular by not having them." James Iry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Just take the point of view of the user, then the answer will be obvious ;-)
Hilaire 2009/5/21 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: > This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons > so what the other think? > > Stef > > On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > >> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >> couple settings: >> >> Preferences >> enable: #halosEnabled; >> enable: #swapMouseButtons; >> disable: #gradientMenu. >> >> Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back >> on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and >> linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is >> windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou >> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>>> used in >>>> print only, not in user interfaces. >>> >>> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently >>> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >>> please tell me. >>> >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
But I have no idea.
I do not use a mouse most of the time in pharo. So tell me. On May 21, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > Just take the point of view of the user, then the answer will be > obvious ;-) > > Hilaire > > 2009/5/21 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >> This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons >> so what the other think? >> >> Stef >> >> On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: >> >>> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >>> couple settings: >>> >>> Preferences >>> enable: #halosEnabled; >>> enable: #swapMouseButtons; >>> disable: #gradientMenu. >>> >>> Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back >>> on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and >>> linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception >>> is >>> windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou >>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>>>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>>>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>>>> used in >>>>> print only, not in user interfaces. >>>> >>>> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I >>>> currently >>>> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >>>> please tell me. >>>> >>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: >>>> 9. >>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Damien Cassou >>>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>>> >>>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >>>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Pollet >>> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Hi Stef,
Stéphane Ducasse pravi: > But I have no idea. > I do not use a mouse most of the time in pharo. > So tell me. Obvious answer is: mouse must just work! This means that Pharo must detect on which platform it runs and swap mouse buttons accordingly. Is there any technical problem that this is not done yet? Detection of a platform? But Sport portability lib has it and it runs well! Ok, just SpEnvironment class>>#onWindows and #onUnix, once we need to add #onMac too... Janko > On May 21, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > >> Just take the point of view of the user, then the answer will be >> obvious ;-) >> >> Hilaire >> >> 2009/5/21 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >>> This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons >>> so what the other think? >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: >>> >>>> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >>>> couple settings: >>>> >>>> Preferences >>>> enable: #halosEnabled; >>>> enable: #swapMouseButtons; -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Janko Mivšek wrote:
> Hi Stef, > > Stéphane Ducasse pravi: >> But I have no idea. >> I do not use a mouse most of the time in pharo. >> So tell me. > > Obvious answer is: mouse must just work! > > This means that Pharo must detect on which platform it runs and swap > mouse buttons accordingly. > > Is there any technical problem that this is not done yet? Detection of a > platform? But Sport portability lib has it and it runs well! Ok, just > SpEnvironment class>>#onWindows and #onUnix, once we need to add #onMac > too... in Pharo we a OSPlatform class where do the platform detection. Question is what the mappings for different mice on each platform need to be. One, two, three button, two with scrollwheel... Michael _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Hilaire Fernandes-4
I lunged at Pharo in hopes of escaping the exception, but went to Linux, not macs. So I am trying to leave a platform whete it should be off and moving to one where it should be on.
Perhaps the correct solution is to give Pharo something that Andreas Raab nicely, elequently, and firmly (seriously, I mean it) explained to me that Squeak simply does not have, and that is session awareness. Dolphin "knows" when it wakes up and goes to sleep, and can act on each. There are high level and subclassable session manager classes for console and graphical applications, including a spcial one for the IDE itself. The startup is broken into phases with hooks along the way. More recent versions trigger events vs. requiring overrides in some situations. The network classes know when to initialize themselves, etc. I have noticed some of this starting to creep into Squeak/Pharo, but my (about time, huh?) point is that with these features, the image could detect the platform on startup and "do the right thing" for the platform. One could also set defaults into the VMs, but that is a bit harder to change quickly. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Hilaire Fernandes Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:32 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo based on core 10309 with antialiased fonts Just take the point of view of the user, then the answer will be obvious ;-) Hilaire 2009/5/21 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: > This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons so what the other think? > > Stef > > On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > >> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >> couple settings: >> >> Preferences >> enable: #halosEnabled; >> enable: #swapMouseButtons; >> disable: #gradientMenu. >> >> Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back >> on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and >> linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is >> windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou >> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically used >>>> in print only, not in user interfaces. >>> >>> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently >>> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >>> please tell me. >>> >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Michael Rueger-6
OSPlatform: that'as another way to skin the cat. As for defaults, it sounds like no swap on Windows, swap on Linux and mac.
Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Rueger Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:28 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Swap mouse buttons (was New Pharo based on core 10309...) Janko Mivšek wrote: > Hi Stef, > > Stéphane Ducasse pravi: >> But I have no idea. >> I do not use a mouse most of the time in pharo. >> So tell me. > > Obvious answer is: mouse must just work! > > This means that Pharo must detect on which platform it runs and swap > mouse buttons accordingly. > > Is there any technical problem that this is not done yet? Detection of > a platform? But Sport portability lib has it and it runs well! Ok, > just SpEnvironment class>>#onWindows and #onUnix, once we need to add > #onMac too... in Pharo we a OSPlatform class where do the platform detection. Question is what the mappings for different mice on each platform need to be. One, two, three button, two with scrollwheel... Michael _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
+1 for OSPlatform current
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: But I have no idea. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Another solution is that the image-level code should agree on what the
codes for the buttons are, and the VMs should be fixed accordingly, so that they abstract that part of the platform away. Changing #swapMouseButtons will certainly bring a few mails from frustrated windows pharoers :) On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:25, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons > so what the other think? > > Stef > > On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > >> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >> couple settings: >> >> Preferences >> enable: #halosEnabled; >> enable: #swapMouseButtons; >> disable: #gradientMenu. >> >> Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus back >> on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs and >> linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception is >> windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou >> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font (DejaVu >>>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>>> used in >>>> print only, not in user interfaces. >>> >>> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I currently >>> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >>> please tell me. >>> >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: 9. >>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
Done: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=838
Swaps mouse buttons for all platforms except for Windows. Adrian On May 21, 2009, at 14:40 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > +1 for OSPlatform current > > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email] >> wrote: > >> But I have no idea. >> I do not use a mouse most of the time in pharo. >> So tell me. >> >> On May 21, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >> >>> Just take the point of view of the user, then the answer will be >>> obvious ;-) >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> 2009/5/21 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >>>> This is ok for me the swapMouseButtons >>>> so what the other think? >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: >>>> >>>>> I use nearly the same script, except with the sans fonts, and a >>>>> couple settings: >>>>> >>>>> Preferences >>>>> enable: #halosEnabled; >>>>> enable: #swapMouseButtons; >>>>> disable: #gradientMenu. >>>>> >>>>> Most important to me is swapMouseButtons, because it puts menus >>>>> back >>>>> on the correct button. Apparently this setting is needed on macs >>>>> and >>>>> linux, so by the magic of (possibly biased) numbers, the exception >>>>> is >>>>> windows. Can we have #swapMouseButtons enabled by default ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:45, Damien Cassou >>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email] >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> That looks great, though I would prefer a sans-serif font >>>>>>> (DejaVu >>>>>>> Sans) instead of a serif font (DejaVu Serif) in the UI. >>>>>>> Serif fonts add too much noise on the screen and are typically >>>>>>> used in >>>>>>> print only, not in user interfaces. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people agree with this, I can change that. The script I >>>>>> currently >>>>>> use is the following one. If you have ideas on how to improve it, >>>>>> please tell me. >>>>>> >>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 10. >>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' pointSize: >>>>>> 9. >>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' pointSize: 11. >>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: font. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Damien Cassou >>>>>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>>>>> >>>>>> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes >>>>>> them >>>>>> popular by not having them." James Iry >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Damien Pollet >>>>> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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