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New Text Completion suggestions

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kilon

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

I will have to agree. I come from blender the 3d application and up to version 2.49 blender did not allow modfiable shortcuts and if you have used a 3d app you know how crucial shortcuts are . Well I knew a lot of people that did not use blender only because of this. In 2.5 blender developer was clear that realised their mistakes and one of the correction was the addition of modifiable shortcuts. Guess what where the sets of shortcuts first released. 3dstudio max and maya, obviously because most people have been coming from those applications.

Frankly I dont trust an application or its developers to tell me what is a good shortcut for me. Oh by the way I come from emacs, and emacs shortcuts suck big time :D ... still I love emacs but I would not use it if it did not allow me to modify those shortcuts.And as you might guessed I did not use Blender before 2.5 for the same reason.

Having a standard set of shortcuts is the easy way for documentation and tutorials, but generally speeking the first thing a user tends to customise in application is the shortcuts. Because people have diffirent needs and use diffirent parts of application.

From: Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2012, 1:37
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] New Text Completion suggestions

On 2012-08-23, at 19:50, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Camillo wrote:
>> So you're saying modifiable keyboard shortcuts are a bad design?
>
> Yes.
>
> That is to say, using them outside of developing a good set of
> key bindings (possibly for each language/keyboard). We need them
> to get to this consistent set. Options could be on the level of
> vi/wordstar/emacs style.

I see 3 versions here, I add vim, BOOM flamewar :D.
so no options, is no option, forget it... whenever there will be
an emacs keybinding set, I will bribe people until I have a
corresponding vim set :D

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3

On Aug 23, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

> So you're saying modifiable keyboard shortcuts are a bad design?

not necessarily but I prefer to have a good default :) so that I do not have to do it.

Stef

EstebanLM

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Aug 23, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>
>> So you're saying modifiable keyboard shortcuts are a bad design?
>
> not necessarily but I prefer to have a good default :) so that I do not have to do it.

+1 for configurations
+1 for a good default

>
> Stef
>
>

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3

Camillo the system should be like that

- user can define to use a map
vim
emacs
customizable
+ pharo

for Pharo we need to have a good default.

To me the remarks of henrik make sense:
the pop up should not stay
using arrows should not pop up something on the left of the screen
after I really understand that enter is not suited for completion just because of the simple scenario
that doru mentioned. but if people cannot leave with enter why not having an option

Stef

Sven Van Caekenberghe

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

On 24 Aug 2012, at 10:07, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>
>>> So you're saying modifiable keyboard shortcuts are a bad design?
>>
>> not necessarily but I prefer to have a good default :) so that I do not have to do it.
>
> +1 for configurations
> +1 for a good default

Yes, +agree

But also, +igor Smalltalk editing is not big text shuffling, we can and should do what is best for ourselves.

EstebanLM

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

what Doru says makes sense... but in the other side, all the IDEs in the world use enter for completion.
We should also welcome newcomers... so, I vote for enter or better, a configuration.

Esteban

On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Camillo the system should be like that
>
> - user can define to use a map
> vim
> emacs
> customizable
> + pharo
>
> for Pharo we need to have a good default.
>
> To me the remarks of henrik make sense:
> the pop up should not stay
> using arrows should not pop up something on the left of the screen
> after I really understand that enter is not suited for completion just because of the simple scenario
> that doru mentioned. but if people cannot leave with enter why not having an option
>
> Stef

Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

EstebanLM wrote

what Doru says makes sense... but in the other side, all the IDEs in the world use enter for completion.
We should also welcome newcomers... so, I vote for enter or better, a configuration.

+1 Good default
+1 "presets" (vi, emacs, other dialects, etc).

The first thing I did when moving from Squeak to Visual Age was to define Squeak shortcuts in VA (alt-m, alt-n, and so on). Then we've been developing several years with Dolphin, so we added its shortcuts even to VisualSmalltalk!

I.e. I love Dolphin's debugger shortcuts, they're almost the same as the ones in Chrome's JS debugger, VisualStudio, an IE9 JS debugger.
When debugging I don't have to think about it, i just press press F10 to step (or Shift+F10 to step through blocks) or F11 to step into. And it is almost the same in all the debuggers I use.

Regards!

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New Text Completion suggestions

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

> what Doru says makes sense... but in the other side, all the IDEs in the world use enter for completion.

may be we are talking about difference change proposition/select one.

> We should also welcome newcomers... so, I vote for enter or better, a configuration.