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Blake McBride-2

New to amber

Greetings,

I am new to amber. It sounds exciting, but I have a lot of questions as follows:

As I understand it, I write in amber Smalltalk and it compiles to JavaScript. Cool.

1. On the browser, for user apps generated with amber - not Helios - are they using browser controls or canvas controls? Also, which one does amber primarily support or encourage the use of?

2. Some frameworks, like GWT and Cappuccino, allow you to develop entirely in their language, avoiding any HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. You can then compile the code into JavaScript. Other frameworks, like Rails, allow you to develop in their language but you must know and often emit explicit HTML. Although they all can, more often the former have a library of their own controls and layout engines. Where in this space does amber fit?

3. Are there any step-by-step tutorials for amber in order to help get started?

4. Some frameworks seem to be bound to their back-end. I think seaside is a good example of this. Is amber connected with its own back-end server, or is it generic like regular JavaScript on the front-end is?

These will probably lead to other questions.

Thanks.

Blake McBride

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Herby Vojčík

Re: New to amber

Dňa 7. februára 2015 0:34:02 CET používateľ Blake McBride <[hidden email]> napísal:
> Greetings,
>
> I am new to amber. It sounds exciting, but I have a lot of questions
> as
> follows:
>
> As I understand it, I write in amber Smalltalk and it compiles to
> JavaScript. Cool.

Implicitly. Behind the scene. Not explicitly, from source codes (it us possible, but only as a recovery / migration tool).

> 1. On the browser, for user apps generated with amber - not Helios -

Helios is the official IDE of Amber and all of Amber code ahould be done in Amber IDE. Therefore, "generated with Amber - not Helios" is an oxymoron.
> are
> they using browser controls or canvas controls? Also, which one does
> amber
> primarily support or encourage the use of?

Does not understand the question.

> 2. Some frameworks, like GWT and Cappuccino, allow you to develop
> entirely
> in their language, avoiding any HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. You can
> then
> compile the code into JavaScript. Other frameworks, like Rails, allow
> you
> to develop in their language but you must know and often emit explicit
>
> HTML. Although they all can, more often the former have a library of
> their
> own controls and layout engines. Where in this space does amber fit?

Somewhere in between. No controls of your own. Very good integration with JavaScript world, so using existing JavaScript libraries is preferred for specialized tasks. No abstraction over CSS, HTML you can done using included Web package which is heavily influenced by Seaside so does have Widget classes generating pieces of HTML programmatically. Also, jQuery included and wrapped via #asJQuery message.

> 3. Are there any step-by-step tutorials for amber in order to help
> get
> started?

There's one video about how to get started, but you the process is so easy you can just go according to README on github. Then there is set of examples, some of them not always up-to-date, but luckily some good people volunteered to work on bringing them to more current state. They are at github in amber-examples repo.

> 4. Some frameworks seem to be bound to their back-end. I think
> seaside is
> a good example of this. Is amber connected with its own back-end
> server,
> or is it generic like regular JavaScript on the front-end is?

Amber has no notion of a back end at all. In the end, if you deploy, it is only bunch of HTMLs, jss, csss etc. (we have a deploy process where we manage to pack nearly everything into one .js file, though .html pages and web fonts must be deployed in their own file). You the can run (not develop) the application using any stock web server.

Choosing the appropriate back end and communicate with it is responsibility of the app.

> These will probably lead to other questions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Blake McBride

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Blake McBride-2

Re: New to amber

On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 4:50:49 AM UTC-6, Herby wrote:

Dňa 7. februára 2015 0:34:02 CET používateľ Blake McBride <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="BbS7JshNnd0J" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">blak...@...> napísal:
> Greetings,
>
> I am new to amber. It sounds exciting, but I have a lot of questions
> as
> follows:
>
> As I understand it, I write in amber Smalltalk and it compiles to
> JavaScript. Cool.

Implicitly. Behind the scene. Not explicitly, from source codes (it us possible, but only as a recovery / migration tool).

> 1. On the browser, for user apps generated with amber - not Helios -

Helios is the official IDE of Amber and all of Amber code ahould be done in Amber IDE. Therefore, "generated with Amber - not Helios" is an oxymoron.

I will use Helios. It is good. I was talking about the generated code only.

> are
> they using browser controls or canvas controls? Also, which one does
> amber
> primarily support or encourage the use of?

Does not understand the question.

For program I write - does amber use HTML controls or does it generate it's own using browser graphics like the canvas?

> 2. Some frameworks, like GWT and Cappuccino, allow you to develop
> entirely
> in their language, avoiding any HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. You can
> then
> compile the code into JavaScript. Other frameworks, like Rails, allow
> you
> to develop in their language but you must know and often emit explicit
>
> HTML. Although they all can, more often the former have a library of
> their
> own controls and layout engines. Where in this space does amber fit?

Somewhere in between. No controls of your own. Very good integration with JavaScript world, so using existing JavaScript libraries is preferred for specialized tasks. No abstraction over CSS, HTML you can done using included Web package which is heavily influenced by Seaside so does have Widget classes generating pieces of HTML programmatically. Also, jQuery included and wrapped via #asJQuery message.

> 3. Are there any step-by-step tutorials for amber in order to help
> get
> started?

There's one video about how to get started, but you the process is so easy you can just go according to README on github. Then there is set of examples, some of them not always up-to-date, but luckily some good people volunteered to work on bringing them to more current state. They are at github in amber-examples repo.

> 4. Some frameworks seem to be bound to their back-end. I think
> seaside is
> a good example of this. Is amber connected with its own back-end
> server,
> or is it generic like regular JavaScript on the front-end is?

Amber has no notion of a back end at all. In the end, if you deploy, it is only bunch of HTMLs, jss, csss etc. (we have a deploy process where we manage to pack nearly everything into one .js file, though .html pages and web fonts must be deployed in their own file). You the can run (not develop) the application using any stock web server.

Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and deploying an application that has just one label and one text input field would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.

Choosing the appropriate back end and communicate with it is responsibility of the app.

Thank you!

Blake

> These will probably lead to other questions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Blake McBride

Herby Vojčík

Re: New to amber

Dňa 7. februára 2015 13:03:48 CET používateľ Blake McBride <[hidden email]> napísal:

> On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 4:50:49 AM UTC-6, Herby wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Dňa 7. februára 2015 0:34:02 CET používateľ Blake McBride <
> > [hidden email] <javascript:>> napísal:
>
> For program I write - does amber use HTML controls or does it generate
> it's
> own using browser graphics like the canvas?

Amber is not opinionated. You have control over the page. Canonical way us to use Web package with Seaside- inspired approach - Widgets, renderOn: and programmatically created tags.

You can go low-level and use #asJQuery and then just do everything using jQuery API. You can go up-level and use amber-athens fully graphical thing from Matthias Springer. Or something in between (flow has some double-binding, I created trapped inspired by AngularJS double binding, there is (stalled) moka project for Amber's own MV* stack, or integrate existing JavaScript suite (do not try AngularJS, though, its heavy use of true prototypical inheritance in scopes is not friendly with class-based Smalltalk).

,> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and

Creating is easy, just follow README. Deploying is in majority of cases just running `grunt deploy` from cli and uploading index.html and the.js to the hosting.

The thing in between does not have a tutorial, yet.

But air would really recommend to go on, anyway - examples I mentioned are more or less working; and even the initial project you get with `amber init` contains a mini-application that shows the basics so you can grasp it and go on with adding more. IMNSHO.

> deploying an application that has just one label and one text input
> field
> would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.
>
>
>
> >
> > Choosing the appropriate back end and communicate with it is
> > responsibility of the app.
> >
>
> Thank you!
>
> Blake

Herby

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basilmir

Re: New to amber

In reply to this post by Blake McBride-2

Try here for a complete tutorial:
http://docs.amber-lang.net/faq.html

Pe 7 feb. 2015, la 14:03, Blake McBride <[hidden email]> a scris:

> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and deploying an application that has just one label and one text input field would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.

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Hannes Hirzel

Re: New to amber

Please create an issue for this

https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-documentation/issues

On 2/7/15, Mircea S. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Try here for a complete tutorial:
> http://docs.amber-lang.net/faq.html
>
>
>
> Pe 7 feb. 2015, la 14:03, Blake McBride <[hidden email]> a scris:
>
>> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and
>> deploying an application that has just one label and one text input field
>> would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

Hannes Hirzel

Re: New to amber

Issue https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/issues/80

On 2/8/15, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please create an issue for this
>
> https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-documentation/issues
>
> On 2/7/15, Mircea S. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Try here for a complete tutorial:
>> http://docs.amber-lang.net/faq.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Pe 7 feb. 2015, la 14:03, Blake McBride <[hidden email]> a scris:
>>
>>> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and
>>> deploying an application that has just one label and one text input
>>> field
>>> would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [hidden email].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

Hannes Hirzel

Re: New to amber

In reply to this post by Blake McBride-2

On 2/7/15, Blake McBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
...

>> > 4. Some frameworks seem to be bound to their back-end. I think
>> > seaside is
>> > a good example of this. Is amber connected with its own back-end
>> > server,
>> > or is it generic like regular JavaScript on the front-end is?
>>
>> Amber has no notion of a back end at all. In the end, if you deploy, it is
>>
>> only bunch of HTMLs, jss, csss etc. (we have a deploy process where we
>> manage to pack nearly everything into one .js file, though .html pages and
>>
>> web fonts must be deployed in their own file). You the can run (not
>> develop) the application using any stock web server.
>>
>
>
> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and
> deploying an application that has just one label and one text input field
> would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.
>

I did a first step of such a tutorial

https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/tree/gh-80/textinput

Please comment on this issue here on the mailing list or (preferrably) at

https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/issues/80

>
>>
>> Choosing the appropriate back end and communicate with it is
>> responsibility of the app.
>>
>
> Thank you!
>
> Blake
>

Blake McBride-2

Re: New to amber

Two questions:

1. What determines what gets executed to kick off an application? For example, I see you have a class named "AmberTextInputExample", and it has a class method named "start". Where is it specified that that is what gets run on boot?

2. Your example has a class "TextInputExample". One of the classes has a "C" next to it in Helios, and the other has a "W". What do those letters stand for?

Thanks!

Blake

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 1:50:49 AM UTC-6, Hannes wrote:

On 2/7/15, Blake McBride <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="UakyCvsBq44J" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">blak...@...> wrote:
...

>> > 4. Some frameworks seem to be bound to their back-end. I think
>> > seaside is
>> > a good example of this. Is amber connected with its own back-end
>> > server,
>> > or is it generic like regular JavaScript on the front-end is?
>>
>> Amber has no notion of a back end at all. In the end, if you deploy, it is
>>
>> only bunch of HTMLs, jss, csss etc. (we have a deploy process where we
>> manage to pack nearly everything into one .js file, though .html pages and
>>
>> web fonts must be deployed in their own file). You the can run (not
>> develop) the application using any stock web server.
>>
>
>
> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and
> deploying an application that has just one label and one text input field
> would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.
>

I did a first step of such a tutorial

<a href="https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/tree/gh-80/textinput" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Famber-smalltalk%2Famber-examples%2Ftree%2Fgh-80%2Ftextinput\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEtDUPfNo5YKk9pijLatuh7Crl9qg';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Famber-smalltalk%2Famber-examples%2Ftree%2Fgh-80%2Ftextinput\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEtDUPfNo5YKk9pijLatuh7Crl9qg';return true;">https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/tree/gh-80/textinput

Please comment on this issue here on the mailing list or (preferrably) at

<a href="https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/issues/80" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Famber-smalltalk%2Famber-examples%2Fissues%2F80\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEW2-QqbcXtQpPRYnOWJkbqqhTOLg';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Famber-smalltalk%2Famber-examples%2Fissues%2F80\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEW2-QqbcXtQpPRYnOWJkbqqhTOLg';return true;">https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/issues/80

>
>>
>> Choosing the appropriate back end and communicate with it is
>> responsibility of the app.
>>
>
> Thank you!
>
> Blake
>

philippeback

Re: New to amber

In the html file, with the proper JS name translation.

Look in index.html for simething like

amber.globals.AmberTextInputExample._start();

C is for class
W is for Widget subclass.

it is based on the classTag method.

Phil

Le 14 févr. 2015 05:17, "Blake McBride" <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Two questions:

1. What determines what gets executed to kick off an application? For example, I see you have a class named "AmberTextInputExample", and it has a class method named "start". Where is it specified that that is what gets run on boot?

2. Your example has a class "TextInputExample". One of the classes has a "C" next to it in Helios, and the other has a "W". What do those letters stand for?

Thanks!

Blake

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 1:50:49 AM UTC-6, Hannes wrote:
On 2/7/15, Blake McBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
...

>> > 4. Some frameworks seem to be bound to their back-end. I think
>> > seaside is
>> > a good example of this. Is amber connected with its own back-end
>> > server,
>> > or is it generic like regular JavaScript on the front-end is?
>>
>> Amber has no notion of a back end at all. In the end, if you deploy, it is
>>
>> only bunch of HTMLs, jss, csss etc. (we have a deploy process where we
>> manage to pack nearly everything into one .js file, though .html pages and
>>
>> web fonts must be deployed in their own file). You the can run (not
>> develop) the application using any stock web server.
>>
>
>
> Having a tutorial that goes through the whole process of creating and
> deploying an application that has just one label and one text input field
> would be very helpful. Without that, I am very lost.
>

I did a first step of such a tutorial

https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/tree/gh-80/textinput

Please comment on this issue here on the mailing list or (preferrably) at

https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber-examples/issues/80

>
>>
>> Choosing the appropriate back end and communicate with it is
>> responsibility of the app.
>>
>
> Thank you!
>
> Blake
>

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