New to news group

Hi all,
    This is my first post to the news group. I have developed my first
application in Dolphin v4.0 and was wondering if and how I could post the
package files to this news group. Is it possible to upload these files here?
If so, how? I'm sure that this code will help some people new to the Dolphin
environment. Also, I would like feedback on my Dolphin programming style -
any bad stuff that could be done better.

    Thanks - Randy Manning  [hidden email]

Randy,

>     This is my first post to the news group.

Welcome.

>                    I have developed my first
> application in Dolphin v4.0 and was wondering if and how I could post the
> package files to this news group. Is it possible to upload these files
> here? If so, how? I'm sure that this code will help some people new to the
> Dolphin environment.

The group's charter has the following to say ....

"                   In line with
common policy for non-binary newsgroups, the posting of large binary files
is not permitted."

That is normally taken to mean that you can post binary attachments, but
only small ones.  I'm currently trying to write an FAQ for this group and
I've used a guideline of 25K for maximum attachment size (although I was
going to look for comments on that when I had finished).  It is probably
better if you zip your packages before posting, for security as well as
size, so if that comes to 25K or less then I don't think anyone would
complain.

You should be aware though that not all news servers allow attachments so
people using those servers may not see your post at all. Because of this you
might like to consider copying the text from the package files and pasting
them into your message. Anyone who wants to try out the package will have to
do the reverse process.  This can get a bit messy and error prone though
(IMHO) and the above comments on post size would probably still be valid?

The best way, if you can, is to put the packages on a server somewhere with
an associated web page and just refer to it's address in posts. This has the
advantage that you can update it without having to repost it and you can add
permanent pointers to it from the WIKI, Dolphin web ring and other Dolphin
related pages.

>                 Also, I would like feedback on my Dolphin programming
> style - any bad stuff that could be done better.

There speaks a brave man ;-)

Regards
    Ian

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:01:21 -0000,
Ian Bartholomew <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The best way, if you can, is to put the packages on a server somewhere with
> an associated web page and just refer to it's address in posts. This has the
> advantage that you can update it without having to repost it and you can add
> permanent pointers to it from the WIKI, Dolphin web ring and other Dolphin
> related pages.

Could we perhaps agree on some centralised place for putting up stuff
like this? I am thinking along some wiki lookalike or perhaps something
along the lines of the ruby application archive [1] with a section
expressly marked for code reviews.

If Object Arts does not want to do this on their official site,
I think I could put it up somewhere on my machine, as it won't be
*that* much traffic, I guess.

How about it?

Regards,
Stefan

[1] http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/raa.html

--
Stefan Schmiedl
EDV-Beratung, Programmierung, Schulung
Loreleystr. 5, 94315 Straubing, Germany
Tel. (0 94 21) 74 01 06
Public Key: http://xss.de/stefan.public

shhhh ... I can't hear my code!

Stefan,

> Could we perhaps agree on some centralised place for putting up stuff
> like this? I am thinking along some wiki lookalike or perhaps something
> along the lines of the ruby application archive [1] with a section
> expressly marked for code reviews.
>
> If Object Arts does not want to do this on their official site,
> I think I could put it up somewhere on my machine, as it won't be
> *that* much traffic, I guess.

This sort of thing has been mentioned before but nothing much happened. OA
will put packages on the third party page if you ask and a little while ago
I registered www.smalltalkers.co.uk (it was free or else I probably wouldn't
have bothered :) ) with the vague intention of doing something similar.  The
problem with this approach is that all updates need to go through a third
party, the person with access to the site, and this could get to be a pain
(for both sides).

The UIUC archive works on a similar basis and I seem to remember some
problems recently with that as well? It would be good to see some Dolphin
code on there though.

Another idea might be to have a server that allowed anonymous FTP
upload access. Anyone could then upload files to this location and add a
page to the WIKI that pointed at the file.  Maintenance of the FTP site
might be a problem though and I'm not sure what would happen if two files
were uploaded with the same filename. You would want to be able to
overwrite, for updates, but could lead to problems - n people trying to
upload a file called 'goodies.zip' and overwriting each other :)

Finding someone with a server willing to provide user accounts, each with
1meg or so of space, so that people could maintain their own small sites is
another alternative.

I'm sure there are other ways.

Regards
    Ian

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:26:48 -0000,
Ian Bartholomew <[hidden email]> wrote:
as usual and as expected :-/
I hope it will be different this time.

> will put packages on the third party page if you ask and a little while ago

this sounds much too polished for the stuff I had in mind.
I would never dare to submit something *for code review* to
a third party package page ...

> I registered www.smalltalkers.co.uk (it was free or else I probably wouldn't
> have bothered :) ) with the vague intention of doing something similar.  The

congrats ... finally one smalltalkers domain not owned by Mr. Simmons :-)

> problem with this approach is that all updates need to go through a third
> party, the person with access to the site, and this could get to be a pain
> (for both sides).

why? it should be possible to build a wiki allowing for this.
each person interested in posting code could store her files
in her personal folder, so no naming conflicts should arise.

>
> The UIUC archive works on a similar basis and I seem to remember some
> problems recently with that as well? It would be good to see some Dolphin
> code on there though.

this would be a good place for "releasable" stuff.
I want to have a (central) place to conveniently publish
some stuff, ask for opinions etc.

This obviously wants to be a wiki, but with file upload.
And file deletion, I think.

>
> Another idea might be to have a server that allowed anonymous FTP
> upload access. Anyone could then upload files to this location and add a

this would be another possibility. Use a "normal" wiki somewhere
for discussion etc. and store the files on a separate machine.
login details could be hidden server-side in the wiki-script,
so this could actually be quite secure. The naming problem could
be resolved from within the wiki, too. In the worst case, we
would have filenames like 1234goodies.zip, but this would be
no problem, I guess.

Now, Ian, how do we go about getting enough response of fellow Riders of the
Dolphin to know if it is worth the trouble?

>
> Finding someone with a server willing to provide user accounts, each with
> 1meg or so of space, so that people could maintain their own small sites is
> another alternative.

overkill, imho.

>
> I'm sure there are other ways.

as ususal and as expected :-)


later,
s.
--
Stefan Schmiedl
EDV-Beratung, Programmierung, Schulung
Loreleystr. 5, 94315 Straubing, Germany
Tel. (0 94 21) 74 01 06
Public Key: http://xss.de/stefan.public

shhhh ... I can't hear my code!

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:26:48 -0000, "Ian Bartholomew"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

Ian,Stefan,

How about a "hybride" solution.
You upload to a temporary machine, either per anonymous FTP or - what
I'd recommend - some "low level" identification prodecure. The latter
to prevent certain "unwanted" binaries.
On this machine, a little demon app resolves name conflicts and does
other kind of "bookkeeping", and then forwards to a public web server,
hosted by a company. There you have high download speed, 24 x 365
(almost) accessibility  and don't have to worry about uploading
issues.
I think it's not too painful for the person involved in maintaining
step (1). Furthermore, you could rotate this "job" cyclically.

--ingo

[hidden email] (Stefan Schmiedl) wrote in message news:<a4082p$1bfuag$[hidden email]>...
> Could we perhaps agree on some centralised place for putting up stuff
> like this?

Centralization has benefits, but I prefer a decentralized approach
such as the Dolphin WebRing.  Centralized repositories residing on a
machine somewhere in net-land have the disadvantage that if that
machine goes down the entire repository is gone.  With a decentralized
approach you may lose a site or two from time to time, but not the
entire repository.

IMHO it's convenience (central repository wins) vs. robustness
(decentralized multi-site repository wins).

(And yes, I recognize that if WebRing.com goes down all the WebRings
die so there's still a single point of failure.  However, you could
still use a search engine to look for Dolphin-related sites so you'd
still be in business, although the search engine wouldn't be as
convenient as the WebRing).

Stefan et al,

> > I registered www.smalltalkers.co.uk (it was free or else I probably
> > wouldn't have bothered :) ) with the vague intention of doing something
> > similar.
> congrats ... finally one smalltalkers domain not owned by Mr. Simmons :-)

To avoid the slightest chance that my original comment was misunderstood,
the "free" referred to the cost of registering the domain and not to an
attempt to snaffle a domain that someone else might want. I know that Stefan
didn't mean it that way but it could, just, be read in that context.

> Now, Ian, how do we go about getting enough response of fellow Riders of
> the Dolphin to know if it is worth the trouble?

Is it worth the trouble?  To be honest I don't know and I'm not sure that
you would get a completely accurate response by asking here. There must be
(?) a lot of Dolphin users who would find such a facility useful _because_
they don't read this newsgroup (bearing in mind the number of net users who
don't even know newsgroups exists).   I think it's one of those things that
would have to be set up and played by ear - it might work, it might not.

One thing it could be worth doing though, even if the above goes ahead or
not, and that is to suggest to OA that it might be a good idea to add an
"Dolphin Online" link to the Dolphin help menu (as a lot of other apps do
these days). It could point at the OA web site and various, index type,
pages on the WIKI.  It might contact people using Dolphin who aren't too
keen on Web browsing/Newsgroups but would click on a help item.

A question to any WIKI experts - I've just had a look at some of the other
WIKIs and they seem to allow the uploading of files. Does anyone know if
this is a hidden (disabled?) facility of the Dolphin WIKI. If so it would
make things a lot easier.

Regards
    Ian

"Ian Bartholomew" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:4wM88.4833$k91.255227@wards...
> Randy,
>
> >     This is my first post to the news group.
>
> Welcome.
>
> >                    I have developed my first
> > application in Dolphin v4.0 and was wondering if and how I could post
the
> > package files to this news group. Is it possible to upload these files
> > here? If so, how? I'm sure that this code will help some people new to
the you
> might like to consider copying the text from the package files and pasting
> them into your message. Anyone who wants to try out the package will have
to
> do the reverse process.  This can get a bit messy and error prone though
> (IMHO) and the above comments on post size would probably still be valid?
>
> The best way, if you can, is to put the packages on a server somewhere
with
> an associated web page and just refer to it's address in posts. This has
the
> advantage that you can update it without having to repost it and you can
add
Ian, Thanks for the info.
    Just got my source code uploaded to my new home page.
Anyone may download it here: http://home.swbell.net/mrandycs/index.html.
Again, Please give me feedback on things that I may have done incorectly.

Regards
    Randy

"Ian Bartholomew" <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:<FEY88.5090$ZO2.250287@stones>...

> A question to any WIKI experts - I've just had a look at some of the other
> WIKIs and they seem to allow the uploading of files. Does anyone know if
> this is a hidden (disabled?) facility of the Dolphin WIKI. If so it would
> make things a lot easier.

I don't know about the Dolphin wiki -- it's not in Smalltalk, is it?
But the
Visualworks and Squeak wikis are in Smalltalk, and have upload
capability.

But often the "goodies" develop into real opensource projects and
before you know it you want to have trackers for bugs and wish list,
and all the things places like http://www.sourceforge.net offer for
free

-Alan Wostenberg
Baan, Colorado