New toolbar icons hard to differentiate - and kind of depressing...?

I don't know if its just me - but I find the new toolbar icons quite hard to
differentiate from one another. As there is a lot of grey - the system and
hierarhcy browser icons are very hard to distinguish. The view browser and
view composer icons (although colour) are also really similar.

I also find that with all the gray (and this really could just be me) - the
overall effect is quite dreary - almost depressing. I quite liked the
colourfulness of the older icons (although I can see that the new icons are
smoother) I also felt they were much easier to distinguish from each other.

- I wish the idea space bulb was in colour.
- New workspace - I think the old icon was better
- System browser (maybe the cog is ok, if the other icons weren't gray it
probably would work well)
- Hierarchy browser, should look different from system browser, the Cog
doesn't "say" hierchy to me - the old icon might still work
- Protocol, the people are ok - I think handshake was slightly better
- Package - I don't like the briefcase, the old package was better and more
colourful
- The two view icons - I don't find them very compelling
- Show Transcript - I thought the old one was better
- The old find icon was better

The apples? which represent classes etc. - they distract me for some
reason - the spheres felt better somehow (maybe its the apple stem that puts
me off - it feels unbalanced)

The method icons also seem a bit busy - when there is a whole list of
methods, all of the two-from arrows just make the screen look very busy and
cluttered somehow (although I like the idea of the icon).

The tab icons for the source pane - again I think the old ones were better.
In particular the Class Definition tab icon almost looks like its fading
away.

Finally the effect of the system folder (which also has the gray background)
feels really drab...and with the panic scream now very legible I almost feel
like shooting myself ;-)

Anyway - I'm sure everyone has different taste but I'm wondering what the
first reaction of everyone else was?

Tim

Well, only thing that strikes me visually is that method icons could be
smaller, simpler, and generally less eye catching. I think that way they
would make method names more readable, since there would be less
distructions to the eye.

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/

rush escribió:
> Well, only thing that strikes me visually is that method icons could be
> smaller, simpler, and generally less eye catching. I think that way they
> would make method names more readable, since there would be less
> distructions to the eye.

I agree with that.
The old green/red rings where very intuitive.
I also like the VisualAge Assist public/private icons,
in which public methods have a green dot/ball, and private methods a
small orange (to red) square.

Many of the icons seems to be more "in tune" with the coming Windows
Vista look and feel, but to be honest,
I liked more some of the old icons. Particulary those who are
"pictures", as the Panic, and View browser/composer.

Best regards.

--
Esteban

Tim,

> I don't know if its just me - but I find the new toolbar icons quite
> hard to differentiate from one another. As there is a lot of grey -
> the system and hierarhcy browser icons are very hard to distinguish.
> The view browser and view composer icons (although colour) are also
> really similar.

Hmmm... well, you weren't around for the Dolphin 5 beta so you won't
know that the designers responsible for implementing the new icons
(i.e. me) tend to be a little touchy when comments are made regarding
them. In particular, I seem to remember the previous more colourful
icons garnering the comment from one of our esteemed users that
"methinks the lady wears too much makeup".

The tetchiness this time round will probably be exacerbated further by
the fact that once the icons were designed once, some were lost in a
disk crash/backup failure debacle and had to be redone.

Anyway, I'll try to be more constructive than I was with my responses
to the 5.0 icon debate. Personally, Blair and icon like the new set
(which seems reasonable, otherwise they wouldn't be there) The icon
designs are intended to reflect the upcoming Windows Vista style (at
least what we know of it so far) with more "realistic" images and muted
colours (rather than XP cartoon style).

I accept that the toolbar buttons are slightly less easy to recognize
so we might have a look at a couple of those, possibly some muted
colors for the IdeasPace bulb, and the Class and System Browsers.
Whether this gets done will purely depend on time available -
fortunately all of the images in the documentation are automatically
generated otherwise changing any of the look at this stage would be
right out!

> Cog doesn't "say" hierchy to me

We're not really calling it the hierarchy browser, partly because the
System Browser also displays the classes in a hierarchy so it isn't
unique in this respect. We've taken to using icons for the browsers of
the type of objects that tool is focussed on so that's why we've
dropped the old "icons that look like windows" approach. The SB is a
little tricky in this respect since it is really focussed on packages
but we already have a browser for those so the intention is to show a
"system of classes". There might be something we can do to make the CB
& SB icons more distinct.


Best regards,

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

Tim,

> The apples? which represent classes etc. - they distract me for some
> reason - the spheres felt better somehow (maybe its the apple stem that puts
> me off - it feels unbalanced)

I will give some points for appropriateness for the scream icon, and for
some improvements in some of the class icons.  The apples, while less
busy than method list icons, really don't do anything beyond the spheres.


> The method icons also seem a bit busy - when there is a whole list of
> methods, all of the two-from arrows just make the screen look very busy and
> cluttered somehow (although I like the idea of the icon).

Agreed.  The arrows are very distracting.  I too find the public/private
indication useful, but would prefer something much less busy; it's just
too much.



> Anyway - I'm sure everyone has different taste but I'm wondering what the
> first reaction of everyone else was?

For me, pretty much the same.  User interfaces should be about
communication first; trends and some churn are ok when they don't
interfere with the mission.

Have a good one,

Bill


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

> Hmmm... well, you weren't around for the Dolphin 5 beta so you won't
> know that the designers responsible for implementing the new icons
> (i.e. me) tend to be a little touchy when comments are made regarding
> them.

I completely understand - and of course it is often a variance in personal
taste. But as a relative newcomer - a bit unhindered by the past, I thought
it was an interesting first reaction.

By the way, I can understand the annoyance at having to redo them..  (an
aside I wasn't sure if the disk crash and backup problems was a good
advertisement for NovaStore or not... good support but not great that you
had some problems)

> least what we know of it so far) with more "realistic" images and muted
> colours (rather than XP cartoon style).

I think my impression is less about the realism - and more about the "muted
tones". It really comes accross a bit too gray (possibly just a little more
colour would make a difference). So your idea of  some "muted colours" would
make the difference I think.

By the way Cog for System browser is fine (the Cog used for the CB is the
clearer image of the two) As for the CB if classes are now an apple icon (I
think its an apple - right?) - maybe its a Tree?

Of course - I assume that I can always Resource edit the dll and customise
it myself (but I'm really bad at icons... ;-)

Tim

"Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> I will give some points for appropriateness for the scream icon, and for

as uncompletely unimportant fact to Dolphin, buit still interesting, am I
mistaken or that icon is paraphrase of famous painting from what was the
painters name, David Munch?, that was recently stolen?

Btw, OA folks,  do not get discouraged by our seemingly exclusive attention
to icons, 6er seems like a great system. I am getting my feet wet with StS,
and you did excellent move by including it.

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/

Rush,

> "Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
> > I will give some points for appropriateness for the scream icon,
> > and for
>
> as uncompletely unimportant fact to Dolphin, buit still interesting,
> am I mistaken or that icon is paraphrase of famous painting from what
> was the painters name, David Munch?, that was recently stolen?

Yes, "The Scream" by Edvard Munch.

> Btw, OA folks,  do not get discouraged by our seemingly exclusive
> attention to icons, 6er seems like a great system. I am getting my
> feet wet with StS, and you did excellent move by including it.

Thanks.

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

The only icons I have issues with are the method icons arrows are a bit to
attractive, and the apple icons are a little out of place! They're very
beautiful. I'm just not sure if they're the right look for a software
development tool :)

Same colours, but just plain orbs would probably be a little better.

> designs are intended to reflect the upcoming Windows Vista style (at
> least what we know of it so far) with more "realistic" images and muted
> colours (rather than XP cartoon style).

I saved some vista screenshots, from various blogs, around the time the
early release was announced by Microsoft.

If anyone wants to take a look, I have uploaded a few to:

http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista1.jpg
http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista2.jpg
http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista3.jpg
http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista4.jpg
http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista5.jpg
http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista6.jpg
http://www.stevewaring.net/images/vista7.jpg

Steve
--
Steve Waring
[hidden email]

"Sean Malloy" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> The only icons I have issues with are the method icons arrows are a bit to
> attractive, and the apple icons are a little out of place! They're very
> beautiful. I'm just not sure if they're the right look for a software
> development tool :)
>

Then it seems they are as intended.

Regards

Blair

>> The only icons I have issues with are the method icons arrows are a bit
>> to attractive, and the apple icons are a little out of place! They're
>> very beautiful. I'm just not sure if they're the right look for a
>> software development tool :)
>>
>
> Then it seems they are as intended.

I've used the old D5 class icons as default objet icons in a recent project.
I'm thinking if I did the same thing in D6, people would ask "What are the
apples representitive of?"