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New user

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

Vitor Medina Cruz

Re: New user

Hello,

I feel your pain.

Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo. Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting started I would recommend:

1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
load

I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one).

After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you need to know.

2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki

3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system..

Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.

Regars,

Vitor

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

Ben Coman

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using

repository: 'github://....'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up.
Presuming so, you should first ensure you SSH is working from the command lineper...https://help.github.com/en/github/authenticating-to-github/testing-your-ssh-connection(I think a facility to do a similar user-check from within Pharo would be extremely useful.)

Next, if you are on Windows, the added complexity is that "Use Custom Keys" must be enabled.(And it would be useful if that was the default for Windows. I trip over it _every_ time I start a new image.)

cheers -ben

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 06:38, G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

vince

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Vitor Medina Cruz

I prefer to clone every repo I use locally.

I just did this with Seaside and then used Iceberg to load it into a new Pharo8 image and it worked.

Vince

From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Vitor Medina Cruz
Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:27 PM
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user

EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender.

Hello,

I feel your pain.

1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
load

After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you need to know.

2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki

Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.

Regars,

Vitor

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

Vitor Medina Cruz

Re: New user

Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using
repository: 'github://....'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up.

There is no need of SSH keys setup.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:02 AM Vince Refiti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I prefer to clone every repo I use locally.

I just did this with Seaside and then used Iceberg to load it into a new Pharo8 image and it worked.

Vince

From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Vitor Medina Cruz
Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:27 PM
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user

EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender.

Hello,

I feel your pain.

Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo. Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting started I would recommend:

1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
load

I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one).

After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you need to know.

2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki

3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system..

Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.

Regars,

Vitor

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

Hi patrick

Welcome.

I do not use Seaside recently but I know that many many people.

There is a online channel about seasiders in the Pharo discord channel.

May be you should post there to get a fast answer.

Did you look at the mooc?

If you need some help with the setup we can have a screen sharing session.

On 20 May 2020, at 00:37, G B <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: G B <[hidden email]>
Subject: New user
Date: 20 May 2020 at 00:37:12 CEST
To: Any Question About Pharo Is Welcome <[hidden email]>

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: '<a href="github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository" class="">github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Julie Jonas

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Vitor Medina Cruz

Thank you all for your comments. I'm using Pharo on Windows and I uninstalled it completely and reinstalled, so I will use your suggestions.

Another question, if I may, is what order of books should I use? I purchased "Pharo 5 by Example" (because it was newer than "Pharo by Example," "Learning Object-Oriented Programming, Design, and TDD with Pharo," "Deep Into Pharo" (which I know would be after PBE), and "Enterprise Pharo" (which would probably be after Deep into Pharo).

Thank you.

On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 6:19:25 AM CDT, Vitor Medina Cruz <[hidden email]> wrote:

Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using
repository: 'github://....'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up.

There is no need of SSH keys setup.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:02 AM Vince Refiti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I prefer to clone every repo I use locally.

I just did this with Seaside and then used Iceberg to load it into a new Pharo8 image and it worked.

Vince

From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Vitor Medina Cruz
Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:27 PM
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user

EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the sender.

Hello,

I feel your pain.

Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo. Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting started I would recommend:

1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
load

I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one).

After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you need to know.

2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki

3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system..

Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.

Regars,

Vitor

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Vitor Medina Cruz

Hello,

I feel your pain.

Updated, consistent and centralized documentation is not strong in Pharo.

I cannot let you say that sorry :)

We have a mooc with more than 100 videos

We have books that are maintained. This is not by accident or fun that I spent time updating Pharo by Example

and creating a collection of booklets. We regularly update them.

We have lectures.

We have a single wiki with documentation.

Things are changing fast and docs don't catch up, also there is an effort to move projects to github, so usually updated stuff are there. I never use Catalog anymore because often things goes wrong. Books are only good to explain major concepts that are less likely to change over time, in order to getting started I would recommend:

1- Seaside github project: https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside. Their readme and wiki page seems to be very good and updated, I just evaluated this on playground and it worked as expected:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: '<a href="github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository" class="">github://SeasideSt/Seaside:v3.4.1/repository';
load

I avoid using master tag as it is usually development branch or frequently has some commit that breaks everything up and and what I want is something reliable, so I always use version tags (when the projects provides one).

After that, I think using the wiki (https://github.com/SeasideSt/Seaside/wiki) or seaside web book (http://book.seaside.st/book) can get you through all you need to know.

2- Pharo open documentation is a much better place to be getting started with Pharo: https://github.com/pharo-open-documentation/pharo-wiki

3- Then you can go and read Pharo by Example and Deep in Pharo books in order to get more information after you can get started, if you are interest, but by now you must be able to do most basic stuff with the system..

Hope that helps you getting by and fuel you interest in Smalltalk and Pharo.

Regars,
Vitor

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: '<a href="github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository" class="">github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Julie Jonas

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Ben Coman

Https does not requires ssh keys.

On 20 May 2020, at 06:02, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Something I'm not quite sure on, is whether using
repository: '<a href="github://....'rather" class="">github://....'rather than a HTTPS connection requires SSH keys to set up.
Presuming so, you should first ensure you SSH is working from the command lineper...https://help.github.com/en/github/authenticating-to-github/testing-your-ssh-connection(I think a facility to do a similar user-check from within Pharo would be extremely useful.)

Next, if you are on Windows, the added complexity is that "Use Custom Keys" must be enabled.(And it would be useful if that was the default for Windows. I trip over it _every_ time I start a new image.)
<image.png>

cheers -ben

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 06:38, G B via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am new to Pharo and liked that it is a cleaned up and modern Smalltalk, but I think I'm done before I ever started. My biggest interest was in Seaside, yet trying to install it from instructions on the Seaside GitHub fails:

Metacello new
baseline:'Seaside3';
repository: '<a href="github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository" class="">github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

Trying to load packages from the catalog browser like Magritte fails. Some packages aren't updated for 8.0 and are only available for 7.0. Some are only available for 4.0. Trying to follow the book for creating a blog has ha me spend time trying to get something going to no avail.

I'm not an expert programmer, but I've been in IT for 25 years and can do some C, Racket, Pascal, shell languages, awk, Perl, but I am stymied at every turn with Pharo.

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Julie Jonas

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: New user

In reply to this post by Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

On 20 May 2020, at 18:59, G B <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: G B <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] New user
Date: 20 May 2020 at 18:59:15 CEST
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>

Thank you all for your comments. I'm using Pharo on Windows and I uninstalled it completely and reinstalled, so I will use your suggestions.

Another question, if I may, is what order of books should I use? I purchased "Pharo 5 by Example" (because it was newer than "Pharo by Example," "Learning Object-Oriented Programming, Design, and TDD with Pharo," "Deep Into Pharo" (which I know would be after PBE), and "Enterprise Pharo" (which would probably be after Deep into Pharo).

You mentioned that you know how to program so in a couple of days you should get up to speed.

Our data is that 3rd students takes two weeks and I know people that did the mooc in speed run in two days.

I would follow the mooc.

You will get much faster and there is an image 32 that is in sync with the mooc version.

The mooc is of excellent quality because we put 10 years of teaching experience in it.

We are working on a mooc version with Pharo by Example 80.

We are about to release 70 new videos of scenarios around Pharo 80.

Just verifying the titles of such slides and videos take time.

Then you can read in diagonal Pharo by Example (I hope to get some time to update chapter 3 this week-end).

After I would read in diagonal some chapters there and there and ask questions.

I think that in a couple of days you should get up to start developing a small app.

You do not need to know everything.

In PBE8 there are two new chapters on Pharo and git. To get started.

Deep into Pharo is not really needed. This is more extra knowledge and I’m currently updating some chapters for

P8.

I extracted the Zinc HTTP chapters, but you can develop seaside without caring about http.

To get started you need to know how to define a class and a method.