Newbie Question About 3rd-Party Components & Execution Speed

Hi,

What level of third-party component support does Dolphin have
(ActiveX, OCX),etc.?

[I realize what the OA site says, but I once used a multimedia tool
that claimed ActiveX support, but it could only pass arguements to the
controls, and not return them - whereas previously I didn't know that
there were such varying levels of "components support"...?]

I'm fairly new to Windows development, and I didn't want to make the
same stupid mistake again...are there any "gotchas" that I should know
about?

How difficult is it to wrap such components, if they are fully
supported?

Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of execution speed for compiled
apps (compared to, say, Python or something similar)?

Thanks,

- DCP

David,

> What level of third-party component support does Dolphin have
> (ActiveX, OCX),etc.?
Dolphin has an excellent ActiveX Component Wizard. Which automatically
generates the Wrapper classes. You find this tool in the Dolphin tools
window at Additional Tools.
>
> [I realize what the OA site says, but I once used a multimedia tool
> that claimed ActiveX support, but it could only pass arguements to the
> controls, and not return them - whereas previously I didn't know that
> there were such varying levels of "components support"...?]
I don't know about restrictions. We used it together with a house
creating software and a text processing control. Both worked pretty fine
in both directions.

>
> I'm fairly new to Windows development, and I didn't want to make the
> same stupid mistake again...are there any "gotchas" that I should know
> about?
I don't know any but maybe there are some. I use the Professional
Dolphin version 5.14, check if the smaller versions include the Active-X
stuff.

> How difficult is it to wrap such components, if they are fully
> supported?
Its pretty easy. The wrapping is fully automated.
>
> Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of execution speed for compiled
> apps (compared to, say, Python or something similar)?
I don't know Python's speed. Everybody says Smalltalk is slow because
its interpreted. I have programmed a carpenter programm for constuction
of wooden houses and roofs. Its all Smalltalk but its runs still on a
Pentium I and faster as the Visual-C or Delphi competitors. Porting this
to Dolphin at this time it seems not much slower. So decide yourself.

servus
CJB

David,

> Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of execution speed for compiled
> apps (compared to, say, Python or something similar)?

Line by line, it will be slower, but some attention to profiling can
allow you to execute a lot less code than you would in languages that
are more resistant to change.  Ian Bartholomew's profiler can be very
helpful in locating things that need attention.  Good design is often
the best optimization available, and Smalltalk gives you the flexibility
to fix design problems rather than simply living with them.

Have a good one,

Bill


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

"Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:co33e6$hnm$[hidden email]...
> David,
>
>> Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of execution speed for compiled
>> apps (compared to, say, Python or something similar)?
>
> Line by line, it will be slower, ...

I doubt you will find it slower than Python, quite the contrary in fact, but
anyway as Bill goes on to point out it is design and algorithms that really
matter:

http://ll2.ai.mit.edu/talks/proebsting.ppt

Scroll to about slide 4, entitled "The least important open problem in
programming languages" (which is "compiler" efficiency), and then onto the
next slide entitled "The most important open problem in programming
languages" (which is "programmer" efficiency). As far as programmer
efficiency is concerned Smalltalk knocks everything else into a cocked hat.
It is also fun to use, an attribute that should not be underestimated (and
which is of course one of the very reasons for its productivity).

Regards

Blair

Bill Schwab wrote:

> > Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of execution speed for compiled
> > apps (compared to, say, Python or something similar)?
>
> Line by line, it will be slower

Than /Python/ !?  Geraway....

    -- chris


P.S. for non-speakers of Northern English, "Geraway" could be translated very
loosely as:
    "Python is an interpreted scripting language, and although its not
    as slow as some scripting languages, PHP and TCL come to mind,
    it is still likely to be quite a lot slower than Dolphin -- even though
    Dolphin /does/ happen to use an interpreter internally itself".
As you can see, Northern English is quite an expressive dialect...

    -- c

"Chris Uppal" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
>
> P.S. for non-speakers of Northern English, "Geraway" could be translated
very
> loosely

Geraway is "Northern English"? - sounds more like Scouse to me! (But I'm a
Londoner, so what would I know?)

Peter

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:04:33 -0500, Bill Schwab
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>David,
>
>> Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of execution speed for compiled
>> apps (compared to, say, Python or something similar)?
>
>Line by line, it will be slower, but some attention to profiling can

I hope not. Although I like it, Python is rather slow...

Peter Kenny wrote:

> Geraway is "Northern English"? - sounds more like Scouse to me! (But I'm a
> Londoner, so what would I know?)

Well, scousers /are/ Northerners....

FWIW, I grew up hearing the expression in rural-ish Yorkshire.

And I forgive you for being born in London, it wasn't your fault.  (And anyway,
I was born there too ;-)

    -- chris

Chris Uppal wrote:

>Well, scousers /are/ Northerners....
>  
>
I feel sorry for all SCO users :p

Does Dolphin generate single binary executables when using components
('embedded,' like Delphi,) or do you just package the components into
the same file directory at install, or...?

David,

I don't know Delphi. But in Dolphin Professional is a deployment tool
which genereates the application as an .exe file. This includes the
component wrappers and all the code of your application. So its one
single file + XP-Manifest file + 1 Dll for Dolphin Sure as I know.

Best regards
CJB

> Does Dolphin generate single binary executables when using components
> ('embedded,' like Delphi,) or do you just package the components into
> the same file directory at install, or...?

David Phillips wrote:

> Does Dolphin generate single binary executables when using components
> ('embedded,' like Delphi,) or do you just package the components into
> the same file directory at install, or...?

If you are asking about ActiveX/OCX/COM components then I think the answer is
the same as for any other language (including Delphi, I'd have thought ?).  The
control is an external program (DLL) that has to be installed and registered
separately.  I know very, very, little about ActiveX, but I imagine that any
third-party control that you want to use will come with its own installer or at
least installation instructions.  I suppose the typical case is that you'd
write an installer that installed both the Dolphin application and the ActiveX
control, but I've never had to do that myself, so I don't know for sure.

Other "components" are just Smalltalk code, and they all get packed into the
.exe automatically.

A last category of "components" is external DLLs that are not COM-based.  If
you want to use one of those then again you'd have to install it yourself
somewhere.  I'd put it in the same directory as the deployed .exe, but it could
go anywhere on the search path.

    -- chris

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:17:11 -0000, Chris Uppal  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

I believe when David talks about "embedded like Delphi", he is talking  
about something like a third party VCL control that can be statically  
linked to the executable. In Dolphin, this is more equivalent to some  
control implemented or wrapped in Smalltalk, eg. a Rebar control, than  
ActiveX controls. Like you mentioned, both Delphi and Dolphin should be  
similar when it comes to 3rd party ActiveX components, ie. require a dll,  
etc

--
Regards
HweeBoon
MotionObj

> I believe when David talks about "embedded like Delphi", he is talking  
> about something like a third party VCL control that can be statically  
> linked to the executable. In Dolphin, this is more equivalent to some  
> control implemented or wrapped in Smalltalk, eg. a Rebar control, than  
> ActiveX controls. Like you mentioned, both Delphi and Dolphin should be  
> similar when it comes to 3rd party ActiveX components, ie. require a dll,  
> etc

Yes, HweeBoon, that is exactly what I meant - "statically linked" -
thank you for translating ;-)

I had thought that ActiveX components could be statically linked to
the executable in some environments, just as VCLs can be in Delphi...?

Guess not.

What is a Rebar control?

Cheers,

David

On 2 Dec 2004 15:00:54 -0800, David Phillips <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is a Rebar control?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/shellcc/platform/commctls/rebar/rebar.asp.  
You have probably seen/used it. Its used in Internet Explorer.

--
Regards
HweeBoon
MotionObj