Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

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Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Hannes Hirzel
Hello

I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/

Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.

You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for 'mouse'.

Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.

Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.

Hannes

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Chris Muller-3
Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
directly on the desktop in my images..

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>
> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>
> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for 'mouse'.
>
> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>
> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>
> Hannes
>
>

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Bert Freudenberg
You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need to change the image.

- Bert -

On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:

>
> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
> directly on the desktop in my images..
>
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello
>>
>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>
>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>
>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for 'mouse'.
>>
>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>
>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>
>> Hannes
>>
>>
>



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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Hannes Hirzel
How is it done? With a flag on the command line?

HH

On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need to
> change the image.
>
> - Bert -
>
> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>
>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>
>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>> 'mouse'.
>>>
>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>
>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>
>>> Hannes
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Bert Freudenberg
On 16.04.2010, at 22:18, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>
> How is it done? With a flag on the command line?
>
> HH

In Windows it's an ini option.
In Linux, a command line option.

- Bert -

>
> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need to
>> change the image.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
>>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>>
>>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>>
>>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>>> 'mouse'.
>>>>
>>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>>
>>>> Hannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>




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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Hannes Hirzel
Thank you.
As I rethink about this I would say it is a bug.

I install the Windows version and the Linux version of a platform
independent system. As I move with my data file (the image) from
Windows to Linux the behaviour of the right mouse button changes. I
learn from Chris that it has been like this for years. I had not
realised this as I had been been using mainly MSWindows in the past.

What can be done about it?

One thing could be to do as well a one-click image for Squeak 4.1
where the preferences are pre-set correctly.

Hannes

P.S. I do not see a category for the VM on mantis
http://bugs.squeak.org/main_page.php
And http://www.squeakvm.org/index.html has no bug reporting facility.

On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 16.04.2010, at 22:18, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>>
>> How is it done? With a flag on the command line?
>>
>> HH
>
> In Windows it's an ini option.
> In Linux, a command line option.
>
> - Bert -
>
>>
>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need
>>> to
>>> change the image.
>>>
>>> - Bert -
>>>
>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>>>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>>>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
>>>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello
>>>>>
>>>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>>>
>>>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>>>> 'mouse'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Hannes Hirzel
Here is the link describing MSWindows ini files:
http://www.squeakvm.org/win32/settings.html

Nothing found about switching the mouse buttons though.

And as I change the last line of
    squeak.sh

    exec "${vm}"  "`basename ${image}`"

to

    exec "${vm}" -swapbtn "`basename ${image}`"

it tell me
    unknown option: -swapbtn

HH

On 4/16/10, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you.
> As I rethink about this I would say it is a bug.
>
> I install the Windows version and the Linux version of a platform
> independent system. As I move with my data file (the image) from
> Windows to Linux the behaviour of the right mouse button changes. I
> learn from Chris that it has been like this for years. I had not
> realised this as I had been been using mainly MSWindows in the past.
>
> What can be done about it?
>
> One thing could be to do as well a one-click image for Squeak 4.1
> where the preferences are pre-set correctly.
>
> Hannes
>
> P.S. I do not see a category for the VM on mantis
> http://bugs.squeak.org/main_page.php
> And http://www.squeakvm.org/index.html has no bug reporting facility.
>
> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:18, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>>>
>>> How is it done? With a flag on the command line?
>>>
>>> HH
>>
>> In Windows it's an ini option.
>> In Linux, a command line option.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>>>
>>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need
>>>> to
>>>> change the image.
>>>>
>>>> - Bert -
>>>>
>>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>>>>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>>>>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
>>>>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel
>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>>>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>>>>> 'mouse'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Andreas.Raab
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
On 4/16/2010 2:32 PM, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
> As I rethink about this I would say it is a bug.

I agree.

> I install the Windows version and the Linux version of a platform
> independent system. As I move with my data file (the image) from
> Windows to Linux the behaviour of the right mouse button changes. I
> learn from Chris that it has been like this for years. I had not
> realised this as I had been been using mainly MSWindows in the past.
>
> What can be done about it?

Two things:

1) Define that by default the RIGHT mouse button triggers the context
menu, not the middle-mouse button / scroll wheel click. This is the
historical reason for the difference - Windows always had 2-button mice
and not being able to operate the context menus just because some aging
gentlemen insisted that the middle button must operate the context menu
was just crazy. As a consequence I changed the mapping in the Windows VM
only. As soon as we have clarity on that we can proceed to the next step.

2) Normalize the reporting of left/middle/right button in ALL VMs,
including Mac which is screwed up just as badly since the keyboard
modifiers used to get to the menus do not actually do the same thing as
the buttons that are supposedly associated with the modifiers. (I don't
recall the details but it was something like Ctrl+Left button gets you
to the context menu but an actual 3button mouse on Mac generates
Opt+Left button or something along those lines).

Cheers,
   - Andreas

>
> One thing could be to do as well a one-click image for Squeak 4.1
> where the preferences are pre-set correctly.
>
> Hannes
>
> P.S. I do not see a category for the VM on mantis
> http://bugs.squeak.org/main_page.php
> And http://www.squeakvm.org/index.html has no bug reporting facility.
>
> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:18, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>>>
>>> How is it done? With a flag on the command line?
>>>
>>> HH
>>
>> In Windows it's an ini option.
>> In Linux, a command line option.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>>>
>>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need
>>>> to
>>>> change the image.
>>>>
>>>> - Bert -
>>>>
>>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>>>>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>>>>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
>>>>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel<[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>>>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>>>>> 'mouse'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Bert Freudenberg
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
On 16.04.2010, at 23:50, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>
> Here is the link describing MSWindows ini files:
> http://www.squeakvm.org/win32/settings.html
>
> Nothing found about switching the mouse buttons though.

3ButtonMouse is there. Toggles between 1-2-3 (traditional) and 1-3-2 (what you want) mouse button mapping.

> And as I change the last line of
>    squeak.sh
>
>    exec "${vm}"  "`basename ${image}`"
>
> to
>
>    exec "${vm}" -swapbtn "`basename ${image}`"
>
> it tell me
>    unknown option: -swapbtn

It's an X11-specific option. You have to precede it with "-vm display=X11". Alternatively, set the SQUEAK_SWAPBTN environment variable:
http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/doc/squeak.html

- Bert -



> HH
>
> On 4/16/10, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thank you.
>> As I rethink about this I would say it is a bug.
>>
>> I install the Windows version and the Linux version of a platform
>> independent system. As I move with my data file (the image) from
>> Windows to Linux the behaviour of the right mouse button changes. I
>> learn from Chris that it has been like this for years. I had not
>> realised this as I had been been using mainly MSWindows in the past.
>>
>> What can be done about it?
>>
>> One thing could be to do as well a one-click image for Squeak 4.1
>> where the preferences are pre-set correctly.
>>
>> Hannes
>>
>> P.S. I do not see a category for the VM on mantis
>> http://bugs.squeak.org/main_page.php
>> And http://www.squeakvm.org/index.html has no bug reporting facility.
>>
>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:18, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How is it done? With a flag on the command line?
>>>>
>>>> HH
>>>
>>> In Windows it's an ini option.
>>> In Linux, a command line option.
>>>
>>> - Bert -
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No need
>>>>> to
>>>>> change the image.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Bert -
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>>>>>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>>>>>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons" preference
>>>>>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel
>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>>>>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>>>>>> 'mouse'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>



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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Hannes Hirzel
Bert, thank you for the solution



I changed the last line of the script 'squeak.sh' to

     exec "${vm}" -vm display=X11 -swapbtn "`basename ${image}`"


thus adding
     -vm display=X11 -swapbtn
as you suggested.


It works fine and I now have a 'portable folder' with the image and
the MSWindows and Linux VMs in it. I  may work with it from both sides
in my dual boot environment without any changes on image.


This is nice. I really appreciate the neat look and feel of Squeak
4.1. It is crisp and clear! And the buttons in the title bar are
really intuitive. With the user configurable workspaces  in the help
menu I can keep often used code snippets easily at hand without
cluttering my desktop.



Hannes

On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 16.04.2010, at 23:50, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>>
>> Here is the link describing MSWindows ini files:
>> http://www.squeakvm.org/win32/settings.html
>>
>> Nothing found about switching the mouse buttons though.
>
> 3ButtonMouse is there. Toggles between 1-2-3 (traditional) and 1-3-2 (what
> you want) mouse button mapping.
>
>> And as I change the last line of
>>    squeak.sh
>>
>>    exec "${vm}"  "`basename ${image}`"
>>
>> to
>>
>>    exec "${vm}" -swapbtn "`basename ${image}`"
>>
>> it tell me
>>    unknown option: -swapbtn
>
> It's an X11-specific option. You have to precede it with "-vm display=X11".
> Alternatively, set the SQUEAK_SWAPBTN environment variable:
> http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/doc/squeak.html
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>
>> HH
>>
>> On 4/16/10, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Thank you.
>>> As I rethink about this I would say it is a bug.
>>>
>>> I install the Windows version and the Linux version of a platform
>>> independent system. As I move with my data file (the image) from
>>> Windows to Linux the behaviour of the right mouse button changes. I
>>> learn from Chris that it has been like this for years. I had not
>>> realised this as I had been been using mainly MSWindows in the past.
>>>
>>> What can be done about it?
>>>
>>> One thing could be to do as well a one-click image for Squeak 4.1
>>> where the preferences are pre-set correctly.
>>>
>>> Hannes
>>>
>>> P.S. I do not see a category for the VM on mantis
>>> http://bugs.squeak.org/main_page.php
>>> And http://www.squeakvm.org/index.html has no bug reporting facility.
>>>
>>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:18, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How is it done? With a flag on the command line?
>>>>>
>>>>> HH
>>>>
>>>> In Windows it's an ini option.
>>>> In Linux, a command line option.
>>>>
>>>> - Bert -
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/16/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> You can configure both Windows and Linux VMs to both behaviors. No
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> change the image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Bert -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 16.04.2010, at 22:04, Chris Muller wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, Linux has been opposite the Windows VM for years; very annoying.
>>>>>>> Back when I was doing a lot of switching back and forth between
>>>>>>> Windows and Linux, I actually kept the "toggleMouseButtons"
>>>>>>> preference
>>>>>>> directly on the desktop in my images..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Hannes Hirzel
>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I downloaded Squeak for Unix (in my case Ubuntu 9.10) from
>>>>>>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/4.1/unix-linux/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right out of the box the right mouse button brings up the halo.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You need to go to the menu 'Tools' / 'Preferences', then search for
>>>>>>>> 'mouse'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then check 'swapMouseButtons'  as 'enabled'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Otherwise the UI experience is  fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Juan Vuletich-4
In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
Andreas Raab wrote:

> On 4/16/2010 2:32 PM, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>> As I rethink about this I would say it is a bug.
>
> I agree.
>
>> I install the Windows version and the Linux version of a platform
>> independent system. As I move with my data file (the image) from
>> Windows to Linux the behaviour of the right mouse button changes. I
>> learn from Chris that it has been like this for years. I had not
>> realised this as I had been been using mainly MSWindows in the past.
>>
>> What can be done about it?
>
> Two things:
>
> 1) Define that by default the RIGHT mouse button triggers the context
> menu, not the middle-mouse button / scroll wheel click. This is the
> historical reason for the difference - Windows always had 2-button
> mice and not being able to operate the context menus just because some
> aging gentlemen insisted that the middle button must operate the
> context menu was just crazy. As a consequence I changed the mapping in
> the Windows VM only. As soon as we have clarity on that we can proceed
> to the next step.

Big + 1 from me.

I have been a long time OS/2 and Windows user, and got my first Mac 2
years ago. Now I run Mac apps side by side with Windows apps (using Sun
VirtualBox). Now, no matter in which OS I am, I open a halo about half
the times I want a menu! I know I can tweak the Mac VM to do it 'right',
but some time I updated the VM and lost the config. Besides, it would be
much easier to talk about 'right button', especially with end users and
in the code itself. Furthermore, in regular Mac applications, when using
a 3 button mice, it is right button the one that opens the context menu.

<really off topic>
The other thing that kills me, although it is not Squeak related, is to
need to remember to use <command> in Mac and <alt> in Windows do stuff
like copy and paste in a regular text editor or web browser.
BTW, I really love Apple hardware, as much as I dislike their software.
Running Windows on a Mac is great.
</really of topic>

> 2) Normalize the reporting of left/middle/right button in ALL VMs,
> including Mac

This would be great.

> which is screwed up just as badly since the keyboard modifiers used to
> get to the menus do not actually do the same thing as the buttons that
> are supposedly associated with the modifiers. (I don't recall the
> details but it was something like Ctrl+Left button gets you to the
> context menu but an actual 3button mouse on Mac generates Opt+Left
> button or something along those lines).
>
> Cheers,
>   - Andreas

Don't know about this. Perhaps John can clarify. Anyway, I can do some
Mac testing if you want.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

K. K. Subramaniam
In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
On Saturday 17 April 2010 03:29:00 am Andreas Raab wrote:
> Windows always had 2-button mice
> and not being able to operate the context menus just because some aging
> gentlemen insisted that the middle button must operate the context menu
> was just crazy.
Morphic/Etoys users bring up halo menu much more frequently than context
menus. Perhaps the change was introduced for Morphic interface?

Subbu

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Bert Freudenberg
On 17.04.2010, at 10:21, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
>
> On Saturday 17 April 2010 03:29:00 am Andreas Raab wrote:
>> Windows always had 2-button mice
>> and not being able to operate the context menus just because some aging
>> gentlemen insisted that the middle button must operate the context menu
>> was just crazy.
> Morphic/Etoys users bring up halo menu much more frequently than context
> menus. Perhaps the change was introduced for Morphic interface?

No, there simply was no change of default in the unix and Mac VMs. Andreas changed it for Windows as he wrote above.

That said, IMHO it's time to fix it. Squeak should by default use the platform conventions. That is, use ctrl-c for copy on windows and unix, and cmd-c on Mac. And the right mouse button should bring up the context menu by default on all platforms.

There is a problem for Etoys however, which shares the VM with Squeak (at least on unix). Etoys users need the traditional mapping, the right mouse button needs to bring up the halo. Right now I can't think of a good way to change the VM's default and still have Etoys work correctly out-of-the-box (we have no way to tell).

- Bert -


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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Stéphane Rollandin
> There is a problem for Etoys however, which shares the VM with Squeak (at least on unix). Etoys users need the traditional mapping, the right mouse button needs to bring up the halo. Right now I can't think of a good way to change the VM's default and still have Etoys work correctly out-of-the-box (we have no way to tell).

Can't we have the VM setting be dynamic (I mean changeable while the VM
is running) and made accessible via a primitive ? That way the image
could take care of itself.

my 2 cents

Stef



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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Bert Freudenberg
On 17.04.2010, at 11:49, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
>
>> There is a problem for Etoys however, which shares the VM with Squeak (at least on unix). Etoys users need the traditional mapping, the right mouse button needs to bring up the halo. Right now I can't think of a good way to change the VM's default and still have Etoys work correctly out-of-the-box (we have no way to tell).
>
> Can't we have the VM setting be dynamic (I mean changeable while the VM is running) and made accessible via a primitive ? That way the image could take care of itself.

That might be an option. It doesn't even need to be changeable, but if the image could know how the VM maps buttons to mouse events it could react accordingly. OTOH if the image "corrects" the VM then there is no way to specify on the command line what behavior you'ld like ... Hmm.

- Bert -



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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Hannes Hirzel
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
On 4/17/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No, there simply was no change of default in the unix and Mac VMs. Andreas
> changed it for Windows as he wrote above.
>
> That said, IMHO it's time to fix it. Squeak should by default use the
> platform conventions. That is, use ctrl-c for copy on windows and unix, and
> cmd-c on Mac. And the right mouse button should bring up the context menu by
> default on all platforms.
>

Yes, the keyboard shortcuts.

I forgot about them because I am used to the Squeak way. However
people who have never used Squeak before probably think it is either
broken or very weird to change such a basic thing.

Maybe the solution is similar to the case of the windows colors. A
menu choice: 'Use Squeak keyboard shortcuts' and another one 'Use
platform keyboard shortcuts'.

Contrariwise to the windows color issue it might be more difficult to
implement, I do not know....

Hannes

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 12:47:38PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> On 17.04.2010, at 11:49, St?phane Rollandin wrote:
> >
> >> There is a problem for Etoys however, which shares the VM with Squeak (at least on unix). Etoys users need the traditional mapping, the right mouse button needs to bring up the halo. Right now I can't think of a good way to change the VM's default and still have Etoys work correctly out-of-the-box (we have no way to tell).
> >
> > Can't we have the VM setting be dynamic (I mean changeable while the VM is running) and made accessible via a primitive ? That way the image could take care of itself.
>
> That might be an option. It doesn't even need to be changeable, but if the image could know how the VM maps buttons to mouse events it could react accordingly. OTOH if the image "corrects" the VM then there is no way to specify on the command line what behavior you'ld like ... Hmm.
>
> - Bert -

Just as a side note, if we do change the VM, you can check VM version
from the image if needed (this works now with a current unix VM):

  primInterpreterSourceVersion
      <primitive: 'primitiveInterpreterSourceVersion'>
      self primitiveFailed

  primPlatformSourceVersion
      <primitive: 'primitivePlatformSourceVersion'>
      self primitiveFailed

Or we can have the VM report what its settings are through a system
attribute or a named primitive.

Dave
 

bpi
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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

bpi
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
Am 17.04.2010 um 11:05 schrieb Bert Freudenberg:
That said, IMHO it's time to fix it. Squeak should by default use the platform conventions. That is, use ctrl-c for copy on windows and unix, and cmd-c on Mac. And the right mouse button should bring up the context menu by default on all platforms.

Like all of you I also strongly agree with this. On the out-of-the-box VMs the right mouse buttons should bring up the context menu. It should not be necessary to change any preferences when moving an image between Windows and Mac. (Using platform-specific preferences for that, like Pharo does IIRC, is is not the right solution IMO.)

Changing the behavior of the Mac VM should be easy, because the mouse button mappings are in the Info.plist config file:

SqueakMouseCmdButton1, OptionButton1, ControlButton1, NoneButton1
3
This logic maps the buttons pressed with modifier keys to the buttons given to the VM. Normally a three button mouse would read buttons 1,2,3. However confused wi ndows programers when they designed the common scroll button mouse think the buttons read 1,3,2 .Thus SqueakMouseNoneButton1 maps to 1, NoneButton2 to 3, and NoneButton3 to 2 inorder to get the correct historical Smalltalk feel. Now when you use the apple-cmd key buttons 1,2,3 map to 3, 3, 2. And when you use the Control-key buttons 1,2,3 map to 1,3,2 and finally the option key maps to 2,3,2. So this *should* give the same button behavior as historical macintosh carbon squeak VMs when you have a one button mouse and use the modifier keys to signal different button colors, and then also give the correct behavior when you have a three button scroll mouse. Lastly before anyone asks, the Squeak VM logic only understands 3 buttons, and the logic as supplied could be wrong, if so let me know, and of course now you have full control to map buttons anyway you want.


SqueakBrowserMouseCmdButton1, OptionButton1, ControlButton1, NoneButton1

This logic maps buttons coming from the brower when squeak is running as a result of the browser plugin. They shouldn't require changing, but if button mapping in the browser is giving you a problem, then look at these parms to address the issue.

I hope John agrees to changing it.

Cheers,
Bernhard


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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

K. K. Subramaniam
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
On Saturday 17 April 2010 04:17:38 pm Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> >
> >
> >> There is a problem for Etoys however, which shares the VM with Squeak
> >> (at least on unix). Etoys users need the traditional mapping, the right
> >> mouse button needs to bring up the halo. Right now I can't think of a
> >> good way to change the VM's default and still have Etoys work correctly
> >> out-of-the-box (we have no way to tell).
> >
> >
> >
> > Can't we have the VM setting be dynamic (I mean changeable while the VM
> > is running) and made accessible via a primitive ? That way the image
> > could take care of itself.
>
> That might be an option. It doesn't even need to be changeable, but if the
> image could know how the VM maps buttons to mouse events it could react
> accordingly. OTOH if the image "corrects" the VM then there is no way to
> specify on the command line what behavior you'ld like ... Hmm.
I am not sure if such command line hacks are a long term solution. Mapping
hardware inputs to actions is a two step process - hardware buttons and keys
to Input events (e.g. right mouse button to "MenuButton" or mapping ctrl-x to
"CutButton") and events to actions (MenuButton to ContextMenu). The former
should be in the VM and the latter should be in the image.

The image should not have to second guess VMs. Methods like
"leftButtonPressed", "rightButtonPressed" or "macOptionKeyPressed" leaks VM
mappings into the image. Handhelds like N900 don't come with ALT/CMD key.
There is no "right" or "middle" button either.

Subbu

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Re: Note: Squeak 4.1 Unix - preset preferences for right mouse button

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
> 2) Normalize the reporting of left/middle/right button in ALL VMs, including
> Mac which is screwed up just as badly since the keyboard modifiers used to
> get to the menus do not actually do the same thing as the buttons that are
> supposedly associated with the modifiers. (I don't recall the details but it
> was something like Ctrl+Left button gets you to the context menu but an
> actual 3button mouse on Mac generates Opt+Left button or something along
> those lines).

If we do address this, one thing I would like to suggest is that we
don't have more than one way to bring up the same menus..

I can't intercept Control+Click to do single-selection toggling in a
list because Control+Click is redundant with middle-click to bring up
the halos.  If I could intercept it, then we could get replace
PluggableListMorphOfMany with AlternatePluggableListMorphOfMany.

So I wish we would not consume all of the possible gestures, we should
leave some open for applications to have.  But I understand we have to
contend with the Mac, with its single-button mouse..  :(