[OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
Locked
[OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
 
|
Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like:
create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) thanks mariano On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
|
|
2010/9/25 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]>:
> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the > differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: > > create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) > You can find many topics about it in the net. This topic is really overheated :) > thanks > > mariano > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> On 25 Sep 2010, at 10:22, Jordi Delgado wrote: >> >> > Hi >> > >> > I write just to let you know that we (the smalltalk.cat group) did an >> > API to interact with a nice no-SQL database called FluidDB. It has been >> > mainly the work of Sergio Garcia, but there is a little of some of us in >> > the >> > tests and the code: >> > http://www.squeaksource.com/FluidDB.html >> > To see what this FluidDB is: >> > http://fluidinfo.com/ >> > >> > Bests, >> > >> > Jordi >> >> Sounds interesting, however the SqueakSource project has a 'Global: no >> access', so we can't see anything. >> >> Sven >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
|
|
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote: 2010/9/25 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]>: Yes, but the net is full of idiots too. I mean...if I read the net then I should be programing in Java... I want to hear if someone of you, someone I know, had real experience with both alternatives. And why you would choose one over the other one. In addition, if someone has experience with a real app using Seaside or something like that. This topic is really overheated :) yes, I know :)
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
Not me. In fact, the reasons to do the FluidDB API are that we
find it interesting (but not that we are not satisfied with traditional RDBMS), that the start-up is located in Barcelona and we are friends with the guys that created that start-up. If you want a more sophisticated argument of the No-SQL vs. RDBMS databases maybe someone else is able to offer good arguments. In any case, Google helps a lot in finding blogs and strong opinions concerning this discussion. Bests, Jordi > Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the > differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: > > create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) > > thanks > > mariano > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>wrote: > > > > > On 25 Sep 2010, at 10:22, Jordi Delgado wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I write just to let you know that we (the smalltalk.cat group) did an > > > API to interact with a nice no-SQL database called FluidDB. It has been > > > mainly the work of Sergio Garcia, but there is a little of some of us in > > the > > > tests and the code: > > > http://www.squeaksource.com/FluidDB.html > > > To see what this FluidDB is: > > > http://fluidinfo.com/ > > > > > > Bests, > > > > > > Jordi > > > > Sounds interesting, however the SqueakSource project has a 'Global: no > > access', so we can't see anything. > > > > Sven > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
|
|
In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
>
> > > > You can find many topics about it in the net. > > Yes, but the net is full of idiots too. I mean...if I read the net then I should be programing in Java... > I want to hear if someone of you, someone I know, had real experience with both alternatives. And why you would choose one over the other one. > > In addition, if someone has experience with a real app using Seaside or something like that. you mean using seaside and NOSLQ db? > > > This topic is really overheated :) > > > yes, I know :) > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
|
|
In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
>>>>> "Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> writes:
Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". The slides are up on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at once... you have to sacrifice something. Traditional SQL databases favored consistency over everything, but who cares if your blog page says "read the 6 comments on this item" for a couple of seconds when there are really 7 because one just got added. The new databases give options for higher availability or performance at the cost of consistency. Some, like Riak (interviewed at http://twit.tv/floss129), actually let you select on each request how consistent you want the results, thus controlling how fast you get the response. Thus, for the front page of a blog, you can say "give me a result that any 1 of the 3 replicas has", but when you finally drill into the comments, you say "give me a result that all 3 replicas agree on". Of course, these are all *eventually* consistent on the order of tens or hundreds of milliseconds, but by allowing "almost correct" results, things are a lot zippier. (It also works that way on write... you can say "come back when any 1 replica says it has it" or "come back only when all 3 replicas confirm write".) So, it's not so much that you get schemaless key/value store (although that's a frequent feature)... it's that these aren't traditional databases in a lot of ways. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
|
|
On 26.09.2010 23:46, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> writes: > > Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the > Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: > > Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) > > I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". The slides are up > on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm > > The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you > can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at > once... Uhm, the P in CAP does not stand for performance. For more information see [1] [1] http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ Cheers Philippe _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
In reply to this post by Randal L. Schwartz
I did some experiments with Cassandra (being that Thrift already
produce valid Smalltalk code) and my pov is that nosql are born to solve the scalability problem in terms of horizontal growing, sacrificing some time in consistency. They are named "eventually" consistent, because the delays Randal commented. To some sort of applications, as sort of Facebook or Twitter, are a good option. My 0,02. 2010/9/26 Randal L. Schwartz <[hidden email]>: >>>>>> "Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> writes: > > Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the > Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: > > Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) > > I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". The slides are up > on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm > > The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you > can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at > once... you have to sacrifice something. Traditional SQL databases > favored consistency over everything, but who cares if your blog page > says "read the 6 comments on this item" for a couple of seconds when > there are really 7 because one just got added. > > The new databases give options for higher availability or performance at > the cost of consistency. Some, like Riak (interviewed at > http://twit.tv/floss129), actually let you select on each request how > consistent you want the results, thus controlling how fast you get the > response. Thus, for the front page of a blog, you can say "give me a > result that any 1 of the 3 replicas has", but when you finally drill > into the comments, you say "give me a result that all 3 replicas agree > on". Of course, these are all *eventually* consistent on the order of > tens or hundreds of milliseconds, but by allowing "almost correct" > results, things are a lot zippier. (It also works that way on > write... you can say "come back when any 1 replica says it has it" or > "come back only when all 3 replicas confirm write".) > > So, it's not so much that you get schemaless key/value store (although > that's a frequent feature)... it's that these aren't traditional > databases in a lot of ways. > > -- > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > <[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> > Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
«
Return to Pharo Smalltalk Developers
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |