Old Things
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Hi, As I mentioned before I'm learning, and learning something old involves some wading through history. I continue to encounter old things, old advice, dead links, etc. This isn't a complaint - just a fact of dealing with old things. I'm getting there, but it takes a little time (I've at least watched all the important Alan Kay vids!). I believe these statements are correct, please let me know otherwise: - People were enthusiastic about Exupery ten years ago but it's dead now. - muO is current and worth having in a collection of images. - The recent ver 5 release of EToys from the EToys site is the one to use and not the 2016 6.0alpha on files.squeak.org. - (from memory) Spoon became Cog which is now in Squeak. That's enough for now, thanks! Stu |
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Hi Stuart > On 19-01-2018, at 5:21 PM, Stuart Cassoff <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I believe these statements are correct, please let me know otherwise: > > - People were enthusiastic about Exupery ten years ago but it's dead now. Exupery was an interesting attempt at making an in-image bytecode to machine code translator. I did show some working function but got dropped for whatever reason. > > - muO is current and worth having in a collection of images. I think this is correct. It does some pretty cool music stuff. > > - The recent ver 5 release of EToys from the EToys site is the one to use and not the 2016 6.0alpha on files.squeak.org. Almost certainly. 6.0 is in alpha and sometimes bites you. > > - (from memory) Spoon became Cog which is now in Squeak. Ooh, gosh, no. Spoon and Cog are wildly different. Craig will almost certainly be happy to point you to good places to read about Spoon, which is at least in part an attack on making incredibly small image files with the ability to load extra objects (including code, of course) at need. Cog is the dynamic translation system that makes Squeak so fast. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. |
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In reply to this post by Stuart Cassoff-2
Hi Stuart,
let me take a tilt at this too, to answer the Exupery and Spoon related questions. On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Stuart Cassoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Exupery was made obsolete by the Cog JIT which arrived in 2008 thanks to Qwaq (then Teleplace and now Terf). Since the original Cog speed has increased slowly but steadily, notably with the introduction of a better JIT in 2012 and in 2016 with Spur, which is a new memory manager and object representation for Cog that produces a significant (-40%) speedup and provides much faster become. Starting in 2012 Clément Bera and I have been working on a system called Sista (Speculative Inlining Smalltalk Architecture) whose in-image adaptive optimizer/speculative inliner is called Scorch. Clément is currently working on its release in Pharo and I hope to do a port to Squeak soon there after, some time later this year. Since its release from Qwaq a community has grown around Cog, which is also known as the open Smalltalk VM and lives in Monticello (the Smalltalk code) and github (the generated and support C/Objective-C/C++ source) and we now have many contributors. See https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/graphs/contributors - muO is current and worth having in a collection of images. See above That's enough for now, thanks! _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
> ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> > Date: January 19, 2018 at 8:31 PM > > > > Hi Stuart > Hi Tim, thanks for your reply. > > On 19-01-2018, at 5:21 PM, Stuart Cassoff <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > I believe these statements are correct, please let me know otherwise: > > > > - People were enthusiastic about Exupery ten years ago but it's dead now. > > Exupery was an interesting attempt at making an in-image bytecode to machine code translator. I did show some working function but got dropped for whatever reason. > > > > > - muO is current and worth having in a collection of images. > > I think this is correct. It does some pretty cool music stuff. > > > > > - The recent ver 5 release of EToys from the EToys site is the one to use and not the 2016 6.0alpha on files.squeak.org. > > Almost certainly. 6.0 is in alpha and sometimes bites you. > > > > > - (from memory) Spoon became Cog which is now in Squeak. > > Ooh, gosh, no. Spoon and Cog are wildly different. Craig will almost certainly be happy to point you to good places to read about Spoon, which is at least in part an attack on making incredibly small image files with the ability to load extra objects (including code, of course) at need. Cog is the dynamic translation system that makes Squeak so fast. > Ok, yes. As I said, from memory. :) I just went back to the Spoon site to refresh my memory. Ok Spoon is now Context and I've read a bit about it already although I don't see activity after 2015. Whew, there's a lot to learn, like from fileIn's to Metacello. Again, I'm not complaining, just recounting a bit of my experience learning Smalltalk from zero. Stu |
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> On 19-01-2018, at 5:53 PM, Stuart Cassoff <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Whew, there's a lot to learn, like from fileIn's to Metacello. > Again, I'm not complaining, just recounting a bit of my experience learning Smalltalk from zero. Do keep on doing that and feel free to complain when you find stuff that makes no sense ordoesn’t work or isn’t documented or seems to trail off into………. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Has an inferiority complex, but not a very good one. |
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In reply to this post by Stuart Cassoff-2
Grr! Some messages from vm-dev this lovely web interface will only open as attachments and I can't reply to them so this is a reply to Eliot. Thanks for your reply. This is really great, getting these bits of the puzzle in place. "Qwaq (then Teleplace and now Terf)" My head asplodes. "Sista" I've watched a couple of vids about it. Exciting. "See https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/graphs/contributors" Hey, I'm there, too! Finally. Hangin' with the cool crowd. Thanks all. I really appreciate this. Stu > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Stuart Cassoff <[hidden email]> > Date: January 19, 2018 at 8:53 PM > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > > From: tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> > > Date: January 19, 2018 at 8:31 PM > > > > > > > > Hi Stuart > > > > Hi Tim, thanks for your reply. > > > > On 19-01-2018, at 5:21 PM, Stuart Cassoff <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > I believe these statements are correct, please let me know otherwise: > > > > > > - People were enthusiastic about Exupery ten years ago but it's dead now. > > > > Exupery was an interesting attempt at making an in-image bytecode to machine code translator. I did show some working function but got dropped for whatever reason. > > > > > > > > - muO is current and worth having in a collection of images. > > > > I think this is correct. It does some pretty cool music stuff. > > > > > > > > - The recent ver 5 release of EToys from the EToys site is the one to use and not the 2016 6.0alpha on files.squeak.org. > > > > Almost certainly. 6.0 is in alpha and sometimes bites you. > > > > > > > > - (from memory) Spoon became Cog which is now in Squeak. > > > > Ooh, gosh, no. Spoon and Cog are wildly different. Craig will almost certainly be happy to point you to good places to read about Spoon, which is at least in part an attack on making incredibly small image files with the ability to load extra objects (including code, of course) at need. Cog is the dynamic translation system that makes Squeak so fast. > > > > Ok, yes. As I said, from memory. :) I just went back to the Spoon site to refresh my memory. Ok Spoon is now Context and I've read a bit about it already although I don't see activity after 2015. > > Whew, there's a lot to learn, like from fileIn's to Metacello. > Again, I'm not complaining, just recounting a bit of my experience learning Smalltalk from zero. > > > Stu |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
> ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> > Date: January 19, 2018 at 8:31 PM > > > - The recent ver 5 release of EToys from the EToys site is the one to use and not the 2016 6.0alpha on files.squeak.org. > > Almost certainly. 6.0 is in alpha and sometimes bites you. > Ha! My mistake, the squeakland site shows the EToys version and the *current* date, not the release date. "Current Version: Etoys 5 (20-Jan-2018)" The EToys 5 release was in 2012. Oh well, at least it makes sense to me now. Thanks again, Stu |
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