Omnibase and full text indexes

Hi,

Sorry if it's a silly question,but I'm 100% new to object oriented  dbs.
I need some fields of my database to have full text indexes, is this possible
with omnibase? O:-)

Thanks

Fernando Rodríguez escribió:
> Sorry if it's a silly question,but I'm 100% new to object oriented  dbs.
> I need some fields of my database to have full text indexes, is this
> possible with omnibase? O:-)

Well, that's not possible, because you have no fields (no tables
neither), and in practical terms it's not a *data*base, it's an
object repository.

Brute force search is not a good domain for object databases, IMHO.

Perhaps you may rethink if you really need a full text search, or a
more complex relation between objects. Or a mix between ODB and
File/RDBMS based data.

Regards,

--
Esteban.

Well,

it *is* possible to make a full text search index with OmniBase. Just
look at the WikiDoc which has got a full text search functionality
build-in and it is much better that the full text search functionality
offered by other wikis which are running on various relational database
systems.

If you own a Dolphin Smalltalk professional license I can send you
WikiDoc source code so that you can take a look at how this is done.

Best regards,

David Gorisek



Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

David Gorisek escribió:
> Well,

> it *is* possible to make a full text search index with OmniBase. Just
> look at the WikiDoc which has got a full text search functionality
> build-in and it is much better that the full text search functionality
> offered by other wikis which are running on various relational database
> systems.

Oops, I didn't knew it. Sorry about the discredit.

When I tried to do full text search on values of a tree it always
took a long time to complete, on 20mb data (single byte chars), and
having to move/load all that data from the repository to the client,
only to use a fraction 1/1000th of the queried data.

Regards,

--
Esteban.

I'll let others comment on OmniBase and restrict my comments to the more
general problem. Indexing is not a natural attribute of relational
databases, but an added feature (allbeit a common one). In order to support
indexing, the database must track all inserts, updates, and deletes to the
indexed table and maintain a separate data structure used for rapid lookup
(the index). Lookups generally fall into two camps--hashed  lookup (where
you can find a value by equality to a key, think of the Dictionary class),
and sorted lookup (where you can find a value by comparison to a key, think
of the SortedCollection class). Each lookup calls for a separate data
structure. If your selected tool does not do this for you, you can build it
yourself or you can switch to a tool that provides the needed feature.

If you have need for a high-end Smalltalk object database (that includes
built-in indexing), I invite you to investigate GemStone Systems (my
employer). See http://www.gemstone.com/products/smalltalk/ for more info (or
ask a question!).

James Foster


"Fernando Rodríguez" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

Hello David,

Yes, please do so.

Thanks

Hello James,

>
> If you have need for a high-end Smalltalk object database (that
> includes built-in indexing), I invite you to investigate GemStone

Does it include full text indexing or it has to be built into it by the user?

> Systems (my employer). See http://www.gemstone.com/products/smalltalk/
> for more info (or ask a question!).

I thought Gemstone didn't  suport Dolphin, is this correct?

Thanks

Fernando Rodríguez wrote:
>> If you own a Dolphin Smalltalk professional license I can send you
>> WikiDoc source code so that you can take a look at how this is done.
> Yes, please do so.
Me too ;-)

CU,

Udo

Udo Schneider escribió:
Me too, Please

Thanks for all, Facundo

GemStone/Smalltalk has extensive built-in support for indexing and queries.
Consider the following example:
--------------------------------------------------
| set |
set := Set new.
$A asciiValue to: $Z asciiValue do: [:i | | string |
 string := (String new: 10)
  atAllPut: (Character withValue: i);
  yourself.
 set add: (Association newWithKey: i value: string).
].
set
 createEqualityIndexOn: 'value'
 withLastElementClass: Association.
(set select: {:each | (each.value > 'J') & (each.value < 'M')}) size. "3"
----------------------------------------------------
In this case we have a Set with Associations and we can query for objects
that meet a certain search criteria. (The argument to the select: statement
is a special construct that is unique to GemStone/S to handle index
queries.) The lookup is generally very fast, even on collections with
millions of elements.

GemStone/S does not provide transparent integration to Dolphin (as it does
with VW and VA, though I believe someone else has done something in this
regard), but does provide a DLL that can be used to communicate with the
application server/object database. As an unofficial project I've built a
wrapper for the DLL that allows me to do much of what I want to do from
Dolphin.

If you are using Dolphin and need more database functionality than OmniBase
provides, GemStone/Smalltalk should be investigated. You don't need to go to
a relational database to get high-end features (multi-user, transactions,
etc.) and performance.

Does that answer your questions? Any others?

James Foster


"Fernando Rodríguez" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

Fernando Rodríguez escribió:
I have a GemBuilder for DX6 running on my machine (a beta version).

Regards Bruno

PS: But it is a third party package (from me) NO GemStone support.

Bruno wrote:
> PS: But it is a third party package (from me) NO GemStone support.
Is this the package which was available here:
http://www.walicxe.com/pages/eng/gembuilder.htm

Do you have a new webpage? I found some very useful packages there which
seem to have been disappeard now.

CU,

Udo

Hello James,

>
> Does that answer your questions? Any others?
>

Thanks for your explanation. I'll download Gemstone and try it with VW, but
what do I need to get started: Gemstone/S or Gembuilder? Or both? O:-)

Thanks

Fernando Rodríguez escribió:
* GemStone/S is the server.

* GemBuilder is the client (the smalltalk application) to connect to the
server.

Regards Bruno

PD: if you want i can send you the GemBuilder for Dolphin.
I'm wainting for the OA wiki to upload the packages there.

Hi all:

> GemStone/S does not provide transparent integration to Dolphin (as it does
> with VW and VA, though I believe someone else has done something in this
> regard), but does provide a DLL that can be used to communicate with the
> application server/object database. As an unofficial project I've built a
> wrapper for the DLL that allows me to do much of what I want to do from
> Dolphin.

Bruno: does your implementation uses this DLL?

> If you are using Dolphin and need more database functionality than OmniBase
> provides, GemStone/Smalltalk should be investigated. You don't need to go to
> a relational database to get high-end features (multi-user, transactions,
> etc.) and performance.

If GemStone/S releases a Lite/Express/Personal version of
GemStone/S, with a lower cost accesible by a small team or single
developer, that would be a great thing. :-)

Regards,

--
Esteban.

Hello Bruno,

Sure, please do so. Thank you very much.

Esteban A. Maringolo escribió:
> Bruno: does your implementation uses this DLL?

Yes. The GbxCPrimInterface it is a wrapper around gcirw61.dll.
But all packages also creates all GemStone/S structures, like
replicates, forwards, etc.

Consists in 5 packages:
* CstMessengerSupport
* Gbs MVP basics.
* Gbs Dolphin tools (browser, workspace, inspector on GS)
* Gbs Runtime (the core)
* Gbs Runtime basic.
It is like 210 classes.

But it has to be improved, i do not run the test cases yet.
I have only use the server through the Dolphin tools (browser,
workspace, inspector, etc) -the gembuilder-.

This project has more than 3 years. But since i have budget and time
each change that i do has very long waiting time.

> If GemStone/S releases a Lite/Express/Personal version of GemStone/S,
> with a lower cost accesible by a small team or single developer, that
> would be a great thing. :-)

This would be a great step.

But i do not know if gemstone is interested ...

Regards Bruno

Bruno wrote:
> PD: if you want i can send you the GemBuilder for Dolphin.
> I'm wainting for the OA wiki to upload the packages there.
I could provide you with some space on Dolphin Map meanwhile if you like.

CU,

Udo

PS: Could you send me the files anyway?

Hi all,

"Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote in
message news:[hidden email]...
> If GemStone/S releases a Lite/Express/Personal version of GemStone/S, with
> a lower cost accesible by a small team or single developer, that would be
> a great thing. :-)

I believe that GemStone/S is included in the VWNC download, so my impression
is that this covers the non-commercial use (including educational use). You
can also download the product at
http://www.gemstone.com/products/evaluation.php.  There is a small-project
license (I think it is $7K per year for a single Intel chip, but you'd need
to talk to someone else to get firm details) that compares favorably with
Microsoft's SQL Server (which costs from $4K to $25K per chip depending on
the feature set) and with Oracle (which is from $5K to $40K per CPU
depending on the feature set). No one is pretending that GemStone/S competes
with OmniBase (which is free and has a good feature set), but each is a good
choice for certain applications.

If you have other questions, feel free to ask.

James Foster
(speaking only for myself)

Hi James, all:

James Foster escribió:
> "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote in
>>If GemStone/S releases a Lite/Express/Personal version of GemStone/S, with
>>a lower cost accesible by a small team or single developer, that would be
>>a great thing. :-)

> I believe that GemStone/S is included in the VWNC download, so my impression
> is that this covers the non-commercial use (including educational use).

Yes, and is freely downloadable from GemStone website.

 > You can also download the product at
> http://www.gemstone.com/products/evaluation.php.  There is a small-project
> license (I think it is $7K per year for a single Intel chip, but you'd need
> to talk to someone else to get firm details) that compares favorably with
> Microsoft's SQL Server (which costs from $4K to $25K per chip depending on
> the feature set) and with Oracle (which is from $5K to $40K per CPU
> depending on the feature set).

I wasn't thinking at that size of license, which even costing less
than Oracle10g and SQL Server, isn't an entry level license.

 > No one is pretending that GemStone/S competes
> with OmniBase (which is free and has a good feature set), but each is a good
> choice for certain applications.
> If you have other questions, feel free to ask.

Well, Omnibase is free since a couple of months, but it wasn't
before. However, their license cost wasn't impossible to pay for a
single developer or small team, which IMVHO is the common kind of
audience that Dolphin has.

I was thinking more in a kind of SQL Server 2005 Express [1] or
Oracle 10g XE [2]. Which being constrained by database size, or
concurrent connections, are free even commercial usage and
redistribution.
This has a favorable side-effect (which isn't casual) to MS and
Oracle respectively, it makes grow the user base of those RDBMS, and
make the "upgrade" more easily* when the system is grown enough as
to enter into an Stardard or Enterprise platform.

*If you're already using a platform, and the same provider gives you
a seamless upgrade/migration to a more scalable platform, your
choices are very influenced (by past decisions).

To me GemStone/S is great and a Smalltalk flagship (the biggest
perhaps), but is a flagship that only sails in enterprise seas.

Best regards,


Links:
[1]
<http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=220549b5-0b07-4448-8848-dcc397514b41&displaylang=en>
[2]
<http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/xe/htdocs/102xewinsoft.html>

--
Esteban.