Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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Le 12/07/2010 16:22, Hilaire Fernandes a écrit :
> Hello, > > I am testing Pharo on XO OLPC computer. > > It is slow, yes, the machine are slow. But I am looking at place to > make it more usable: > > - larger font size (at least 12pt) you can load the full DejaVu strikefont package from squeaksource (CUIS fonts). It includes dejaVu of size 6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,17 and 22. http://www.squeaksource.com/DejaVu Alain > > Hilaire > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by hilaire
thanks for trying.
did you try cuis to see a difference? I know that juan optimize scrollbars and others. > Hello, > > I am testing Pharo on XO OLPC computer. > > It is slow, yes, the machine are slow. But I am looking at place to make it more usable: > > - larger font size (at least 12pt) > - screen depth to 16 bpp > - no background, does it help? > - browser, can we improve something? > - polymorph theme, I have this unfinished sugar theme I would like to optimize for faster rendering > > Which tweaking can be applied to the image for a better user experience? > > Thanks to share any thought, even random ones. > > > Hilaire > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by hilaire
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> Hello, > > I am testing Pharo on XO OLPC computer. > > It is slow, yes, the machine are slow. But I am looking at place to make it > more usable: > > - larger font size (at least 12pt) > - screen depth to 16 bpp > - no background, does it help? > - browser, can we improve something? > - polymorph theme, I have this unfinished sugar theme I would like to > optimize for faster rendering > > Which tweaking can be applied to the image for a better user experience? You can use MVC, it works well on much slower computers... oh wait... Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) Try getting rid of gradients, dropshadows, etc. Use a plain old strikefont without anti-aliasing. If you can build a custom vm, make sure that you optimize it for the platform and build all modules external, except for those which are loaded when the image starts. You can also try using the new StackVM. And you can also run the following version of the browser test to see where can you improve the performance: | savedMorphs | savedMorphs := World submorphs. World removeAllMorphs."heh, heh" [ [ 10 timesRepeat: [ Browser fullOnClass: Object selector: #yourself ]. World submorphs do: [ :m | m delete. self currentWorld doOneCycle] ] ensure: [ World addAllMorphs: savedMorphs ] ] timeProfile. Levente > > Thanks to share any thought, even random ones. > > > Hilaire > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Alain Plantec-4
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
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In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
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Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
> You can use MVC, it works well on much slower computers... oh wait...
:) Levente it was a good one. :) > Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) :) I know the feeling. Now we removed MVC from pharo not because we did not value it but because we want a clean infrastructure (where several UI system could be loaded) and this was not with a isMorphic code everywhere that we could move. So sometimes you have to take decision so that you can get again agile so that you can reconsider your own decision. > Try getting rid of gradients, dropshadows, etc. Use a plain old strikefont > without anti-aliasing. If you can build a custom vm, make sure that you optimize it for the platform and build all modules external, except for those which are loaded when the image starts. You can also try using the new StackVM. > And you can also run the following version of the browser test to see where can you improve the performance: > > | savedMorphs | > savedMorphs := World submorphs. > World removeAllMorphs."heh, heh" > [ > [ > 10 timesRepeat: [ Browser fullOnClass: Object selector: #yourself ]. > World submorphs do: [ :m | m delete. self currentWorld doOneCycle] ] > ensure: [ World addAllMorphs: savedMorphs ] ] timeProfile. > > > Levente > >> >> Thanks to share any thought, even random ones. >> >> >> Hilaire >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by hilaire
2010/7/12 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> Le 12/07/2010 18:08, Levente Uzonyi a écrit : Your friend is right: we still use IT of the 70s... But maybe he's still using those of the late 60s himself (you know,{}, no boolean, source files, include files, preprocessor directives, compiler flags,...) That's something I usually answer. Nicolas
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Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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> Your joke remind me a funny event occurring one year ago. I was chatting with an old friend working in the bank sector in Geneva. He asked me what's up today, I told him my interest in Smalltalk, he joked I was interested in computer archeology. It looked funny to me as well.
> > Your friend is right: we still use IT of the 70s... > But maybe he's still using those of the late 60s himself (you know,{}, no boolean, source files, include files, preprocessor directives, compiler flags,...) > That's something I usually answer. > > Nicolas :) Even if it would be good to invent the next generation - secure - extremely modular/malleable (bootstrap and coevolution of the vm would be really cool) - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining - customizable memory management - better mop Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Gradual typing could help there, doing optimisations where possible. Eric has a PhD student (Oscar) working on gradual typing, with Pharo as the test bed. Next semester there should start a second one with me (Esteban) that is going to look at the vm side of things: if type info is available, use it to optimise ... So, we are working on it ;-) On 12 Jul 2010, at 15:53, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining -- Johan Fabry [hidden email] - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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I would love to hear more about oscar. I would love to know where the libraries could be improved to have more coherent type information.
I told him when I visited you but so far we got no feedback. We will see if there are some results. Stef > > Gradual typing could help there, doing optimisations where possible. Eric has a PhD student (Oscar) working on gradual typing, with Pharo as the test bed. Next semester there should start a second one with me (Esteban) that is going to look at the vm side of things: if type info is available, use it to optimise ... > > So, we are working on it ;-) > > On 12 Jul 2010, at 15:53, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > >> - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining > > -- > Johan Fabry > [hidden email] - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by jfabry
instead of gradual typing I prefer the term pluggable types because it is really clear what it means.
On Jul 12, 2010, at 10:03 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: > > Gradual typing could help there, doing optimisations where possible. Eric has a PhD student (Oscar) working on gradual typing, with Pharo as the test bed. Next semester there should start a second one with me (Esteban) that is going to look at the vm side of things: if type info is available, use it to optimise ... > > So, we are working on it ;-) > > On 12 Jul 2010, at 15:53, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > >> - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining > > -- > Johan Fabry > [hidden email] - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
2010/7/12 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> I would love to hear more about oscar. I would love to know where the libraries could be improved to have more coherent type information. Oh, you mean following the steps of Strongtalk... Nicolas
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Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > 2010/7/12 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> > I would love to hear more about oscar. I would love to know where the libraries could be improved to have more coherent type information. > I told him when I visited you but so far we got no feedback. We will see if there are some results. > > Stef > > > Oh, you mean following the steps of Strongtalk... Yes getting advantage of strong typing without the inconvenient. You could have checkers that help us and still have a pure dynamically typed language. Some years ago a student did an experiment at bern on that. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
On Jul 12, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > instead of gradual typing I prefer the term pluggable types because it is really clear what it means. > Pluggable types is differnt to "gradual typing". Pluggable types: Infrastucture to plug any type system (with infrastructure to allow to infer or or ignore non-annotated code). Gradual Types: One (kind of) Type System where type annotations are optional: http://ecee.colorado.edu/~siek/gradualtyping.html Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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Hilarie: first question, do you want to make faster what? The development there or the deploy of a particular application?
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote: Le 13/07/2010 09:42, Mariano Martinez Peck a écrit : Ok ok ok. What I would to is to: - Start from PharoCore, of course. Not dev. Take a core and load what you need. To script such loads, you can use Gofer. If you want to use Metacello, you can take your conf and load it. It will bootstrap metacello, and then, once you have installed it, with ConfigurationOfMetacello >> unload you con can remove Metacello from the system. - Do some cleaning to the image. Check the stuff done in ScriptLoader >> cleanUpForProduction. There are a lot of interesting things there - Use standard fonts and as they said, without antialaising - For the VM you can also compile a minimal VM. I did that with MacOS where I compiled only the 4 or 5 plugins that were needed. I am not sure if you win something, thus. - Check and try this email: http://forum.world.st/Are-random-refactorings-welcome-td2283957.html#a2283957 - Of course, try Cog. - I would use the SystemBrowser that comes with the Core. Not OB neither O2. - Enable fastDragWindowForMorphic - Don't use annotation panes. CHeck also issues 2403 - Use Pharo 1.1 that is much faster than 1.0 That's all that came to my mind. Not sure what could help. Good luck and let us know. Cheers Mariano
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Re: Optimize Pharo for slow horse
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In reply to this post by hilaire
Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> Le 13/07/2010 09:42, Mariano Martinez Peck a écrit : >> Hilarie: first question, do you want to make faster what? The >> development there or the deploy of a particular application? > > > I want first to improve the user experience under this 12 years old > CPU power technology (XO-1): make UI more responsive is the first and > only issue. > > I am compiling tips and suggestion on DrGeo Todo list: > http://community.ofset.org/index.php/DrGeo_Todo > > > Next of course the deployment is another aspect related to > configuration, see my other post. > Hi Hilaire, I suggest testing Cuis. In Cuis do 'Preferences veryBigFonts' and you get a quite usable system on the XO. Then, use the profiler, to see where Pharo spends time and Cuis doesn't. That's are the parts you need to understand and optimize. And you can take code from Cuis to make it faster (it is all MIT). BTW, anti aliased fonts are ok if StrikeFonts (i.e. the Cuis DejaVu fonts), and most likely, using 16bpp Display instead of 32 doesn't make much difference. Cheers, Juan Vuletich _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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