PR2789, Rubric integration revert
Locked
PR2789, Rubric integration revert
 
|
Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted.
Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 Stephan |
|
|
Hi stephan
> Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted. > Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 > > Stephan Nobody is working on Pharo this is well known. Second my mom always told me that we should not say want but would like. Third, Pharo 80 is ALPHA. Fourth it will be released in November or December 2019. Sorry but I did not like the ton of your email, especially because there are lot of information that you do not know. Now if you want to help, add the issue to the projects so that I can work on them with Alain and others. Else I will do it. S. |
Re: PR2789, Rubric integration revert
|
|
ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi stephan > >> Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted. >> Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 >> >> Stephan > > Nobody is working on Pharo this is well known. I am feeling angry and ignored. I am trying to contribute and am frustrated in doing so. I am asked to go through fogbugz and make sure that important issues are reopened on github. I do so and get comments that bugs don’t solve themselves, on the one where I notice that Rubric is not ready. I find and fix important other bugs and try to integrate them and notice that a lot of things don’t work as they should. CI has been systematically red. The first thing I notice is that an in-image test is red, with a trivial to fix issue. Then I run into all kinds of other problems with Rubric not implementing something. And I’m not the only one, looking at the issue tracker. So I look back trough github and see no signs of improvements in the past 14 days. I collected the relevant issues and reached out on github and discord first, without getting a useful reaction. This is not the development process we are using, as I understand it. Please revert the PR. I have been working on FFI, Taskbar and CI bugs and I want to be able to commit, integrate PRs and make Pharo better. Pharo is mine. > > Sorry but I did not like the ton of your email, especially because there are > lot of information that you do not know. I’m up to date with the github commits, issues and PRs, Discord and the mailing lists. If you feel contributors need more information, please make sure we get it > Now if you want to help, add the issue to the projects so that I can work > on them with Alain > and others. Else I will do it. Projects don’t work yet. If you want time to focus on Rubric only and don’t want other contributions to Pharo 8 at the moment, then please announce so. Or use a branch. Don’t integrate a PR that breaks CI and then don’t fix the issues for two weeks. Stephan |
|
|
I think that you are exaggerating.
We are not working on Pharo 100% of our time and life is complex. Stef > ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi stephan >> >>> Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted. >>> Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 >>> >>> Stephan >> >> Nobody is working on Pharo this is well known. > > I am feeling angry and ignored. I am trying to contribute and am frustrated > in doing so. I am asked to go through fogbugz and make sure that important > issues are reopened on github. I do so and get comments that bugs don’t > solve themselves, on the one where I notice that Rubric is not ready. I > find and fix important other bugs and try to integrate them and notice that > a lot of things don’t work as they should. CI has been systematically red. > The first thing I notice is that an in-image test is red, with a trivial to > fix issue. Then I run into all kinds of other problems with Rubric not > implementing something. And I’m not the only one, looking at the issue > tracker. So I look back trough github and see no signs of improvements in > the past 14 days. I collected the relevant issues and reached out on github > and discord first, without getting a useful reaction. This is not the > development process we are using, as I understand it. > > Please revert the PR. I have been working on FFI, Taskbar and CI bugs and I > want to be able to commit, integrate PRs and make Pharo better. Pharo is > mine. > >> >> Sorry but I did not like the ton of your email, especially because there are >> lot of information that you do not know. > > I’m up to date with the github commits, issues and PRs, Discord and the > mailing lists. If you feel contributors need more information, please make > sure we get it There are information about private people and this is private! >> Now if you want to help, add the issue to the projects so that I can work >> on them with Alain >> and others. Else I will do it. > > Projects don’t work yet. I just added your issues to them. > If you want time to focus on Rubric only and don’t want other contributions > to Pharo 8 at the moment, then please announce so. Or use a branch. Don’t > integrate a PR that breaks CI and then don’t fix the issues for two weeks. Come on. Stop that kind of bullshit. We have been integrating fixes since the beginning with tests not passing. But you convince me I decided that I will stop reviewing issues and take responsibility to integrate fixes. Esteban and marcus will do it. I will focus on my projects because I’m total disagreement. My point of view is that life is complex but you have the right to have rigid views and I have the right to drop and use my time for something else. Stef |
|
|
In reply to this post by Stephan Eggermont-3
Hi,
I am sorry you feel frustrated but this is an important change that is going on and we need to tackle it, not revert it. Yes, probably last two weeks there has not been much movement, but reason is we are working on make PharoDays possible. Now, as Stef said… Pharo 8 is alpha. I will add VERY alpha. Each release has some moments where there is something severely broken. From my part I’m happy that this happens now and now (as usual) in august when we are preparing for release :) Please, do a step back and and rephrase your mail. You are the advocate of non-violent communication. I’m afraid do tell you that the tone of the mail was very violent. In the positive lecture of things: yes, we are having problems with rubric. But once we fix it, you will be happier with it, I’m sure :) Esteban > On 26 Mar 2019, at 18:39, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote: > > ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi stephan >> >>> Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted. >>> Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 >>> >>> Stephan >> >> Nobody is working on Pharo this is well known. > > I am feeling angry and ignored. I am trying to contribute and am frustrated > in doing so. I am asked to go through fogbugz and make sure that important > issues are reopened on github. I do so and get comments that bugs don’t > solve themselves, on the one where I notice that Rubric is not ready. I > find and fix important other bugs and try to integrate them and notice that > a lot of things don’t work as they should. CI has been systematically red. > The first thing I notice is that an in-image test is red, with a trivial to > fix issue. Then I run into all kinds of other problems with Rubric not > implementing something. And I’m not the only one, looking at the issue > tracker. So I look back trough github and see no signs of improvements in > the past 14 days. I collected the relevant issues and reached out on github > and discord first, without getting a useful reaction. This is not the > development process we are using, as I understand it. > > Please revert the PR. I have been working on FFI, Taskbar and CI bugs and I > want to be able to commit, integrate PRs and make Pharo better. Pharo is > mine. > >> >> Sorry but I did not like the ton of your email, especially because there are >> lot of information that you do not know. > > I’m up to date with the github commits, issues and PRs, Discord and the > mailing lists. If you feel contributors need more information, please make > sure we get it > >> Now if you want to help, add the issue to the projects so that I can work >> on them with Alain >> and others. Else I will do it. > > Projects don’t work yet. > > If you want time to focus on Rubric only and don’t want other contributions > to Pharo 8 at the moment, then please announce so. Or use a branch. Don’t > integrate a PR that breaks CI and then don’t fix the issues for two weeks. > > Stephan > > > > > |
|
|
> On 26 Mar 2019, at 18:52, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I am sorry you feel frustrated but this is an important change that is going on and we need to tackle it, not revert it. > Yes, probably last two weeks there has not been much movement, but reason is we are working on make PharoDays possible. > > Now, as Stef said… Pharo 8 is alpha. > I will add VERY alpha. > Each release has some moments where there is something severely broken. From my part I’m happy that this happens now and now (as usual) in august when we are preparing for release :) > > Please, do a step back and and rephrase your mail. You are the advocate of non-violent communication. I’m afraid do tell you that the tone of the mail was very violent. > > In the positive lecture of things: yes, we are having problems with rubric. But once we fix it, you will be happier with it, I’m sure :) > > Esteban > >> On 26 Mar 2019, at 18:39, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Hi stephan >>> >>>> Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted. >>>> Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 >>>> >>>> Stephan >>> >>> Nobody is working on Pharo this is well known. >> >> I am feeling angry and ignored. I am trying to contribute and am frustrated >> in doing so. I am asked to go through fogbugz and make sure that important >> issues are reopened on github. I do so and get comments that bugs don’t >> solve themselves, on the one where I notice that Rubric is not ready. I >> find and fix important other bugs and try to integrate them and notice that >> a lot of things don’t work as they should. CI has been systematically red. >> The first thing I notice is that an in-image test is red, with a trivial to >> fix issue. Then I run into all kinds of other problems with Rubric not >> implementing something. And I’m not the only one, looking at the issue >> tracker. So I look back trough github and see no signs of improvements in >> the past 14 days. I collected the relevant issues and reached out on github >> and discord first, without getting a useful reaction. This is not the >> development process we are using, as I understand it. >> >> Please revert the PR. I have been working on FFI, Taskbar and CI bugs and I >> want to be able to commit, integrate PRs and make Pharo better. Pharo is >> mine. >> >>> >>> Sorry but I did not like the ton of your email, especially because there are >>> lot of information that you do not know. >> >> I’m up to date with the github commits, issues and PRs, Discord and the >> mailing lists. If you feel contributors need more information, please make >> sure we get it >> >>> Now if you want to help, add the issue to the projects so that I can work >>> on them with Alain >>> and others. Else I will do it. >> >> Projects don’t work yet. >> >> If you want time to focus on Rubric only and don’t want other contributions >> to Pharo 8 at the moment, then please announce so. Or use a branch. Don’t >> integrate a PR that breaks CI and then don’t fix the issues for two weeks. >> >> Stephan >> >> >> >> >> > |
Re: PR2789, Rubric integration revert
|
|
In reply to this post by ducasse
Guys - from the sidelines, I’m feeling for all sides here. But this is an important point that it’s useful to debate openly and without hard feeling. (So thanks to all of you for this passion). Please lets ensure we don’t get to a place that stops the will to contribute, nor the drive for improvement. Both are very important. And I’ve appreciated both! It sounds like a pattern is emerging where in the early days after a new release there is the drive to break a bit more to try and make a huge leap forward... I think we can all understand that, but it’s useful to be reminded about it and put some exit criterion put in place (as in the trenches their is also the same excitement to nail some of the niggly bits too). In the same vein, however, can we understand if these changes have broken P8 badly (is it just a a certain area?). I also think it is worth understanding the pro’s and con’s of doing things in a branch. I think we would all agree that not breaking P8 mainline is optimal, but equally we’ve all experienced merge hell too (and iceberg is still a nascent solution that is grappling with this problem). So was it just too hard to branch? And if it was, should we put a little - this is the process for hard things like this, safety check in place? Equally, if it’s “oops”, I think we all can understand that too. But most of all - we need everyone on board to make needed improvements, and keep our environment and community healthy! Tim Sent from my iPhone > On 26 Mar 2019, at 17:50, ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I think that you are exaggerating. > We are not working on Pharo 100% of our time and life is complex. > > Stef > >> ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Hi stephan >>> >>>> Unless someone is working on fixing it today, I want this PR reverted. >>>> Issues 2865, 2963, 2964, 2980, 3013 >>>> >>>> Stephan >>> >>> Nobody is working on Pharo this is well known. >> >> I am feeling angry and ignored. I am trying to contribute and am frustrated >> in doing so. I am asked to go through fogbugz and make sure that important >> issues are reopened on github. I do so and get comments that bugs don’t >> solve themselves, on the one where I notice that Rubric is not ready. I >> find and fix important other bugs and try to integrate them and notice that >> a lot of things don’t work as they should. CI has been systematically red. >> The first thing I notice is that an in-image test is red, with a trivial to >> fix issue. Then I run into all kinds of other problems with Rubric not >> implementing something. And I’m not the only one, looking at the issue >> tracker. So I look back trough github and see no signs of improvements in >> the past 14 days. I collected the relevant issues and reached out on github >> and discord first, without getting a useful reaction. This is not the >> development process we are using, as I understand it. >> >> Please revert the PR. I have been working on FFI, Taskbar and CI bugs and I >> want to be able to commit, integrate PRs and make Pharo better. Pharo is >> mine. >> >>> >>> Sorry but I did not like the ton of your email, especially because there are >>> lot of information that you do not know. >> >> I’m up to date with the github commits, issues and PRs, Discord and the >> mailing lists. If you feel contributors need more information, please make >> sure we get it > > There are information about private people and this is private! > >>> Now if you want to help, add the issue to the projects so that I can work >>> on them with Alain >>> and others. Else I will do it. >> >> Projects don’t work yet. > > I just added your issues to them. > >> If you want time to focus on Rubric only and don’t want other contributions >> to Pharo 8 at the moment, then please announce so. Or use a branch. Don’t >> integrate a PR that breaks CI and then don’t fix the issues for two weeks. > > Come on. Stop that kind of bullshit. > We have been integrating fixes since the beginning with tests not passing. > But you convince me I decided that I will stop reviewing issues and take responsibility > to integrate fixes. Esteban and marcus will do it. > > I will focus on my projects because I’m total disagreement. > My point of view is that life is complex but you have the right to have rigid views and I have the right > to drop and use my time for something else. > > Stef > > > |
Re: PR2789, Rubric integration revert
|
Administrator
|
Tim Mackinnon wrote
> But most of all - we need everyone on board to make needed improvements, > and keep our environment and community healthy! Yes!! Written communication is a terrible channel for emotional content. Unless we all assume that each others' intentions are good, interpret ambiguous messages generously, and stick to technical issues, we are lost. We all get frustrated and tempted to dump our feelings onto mailing lists, but there is nothing to be gained, and a lot to lose. p.s. Since there seems to be a swell of new interest in Pharo, this also leaves a bad impression for newbies. ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
Cheers,
Sean |
«
Return to Pharo Smalltalk Developers
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |