Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

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Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Norbert Schlemmer
Currently I'am using VA 9.1.1 x64 as development environment. But the runtime is x86 and I have to use VA 9.1.1 x86 to package the ICX.
Can the x64 version be used to package an image for the x86 runtime and vice versa ?
Thanks
Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Hi,

Quick answer from phone.. 
I think you can't but you may use iconv utility to convert the generated icx and ICs from x64 to x86. 

Others may have another idea.. 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 08:47 Norbert Schlemmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently I'am using VA 9.1.1 x64 as development environment. But the runtime is x86 and I have to use VA 9.1.1 x86 to package the ICX.
Can the x64 version be used to package an image for the x86 runtime and vice versa ?
Thanks
Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Louis LaBrunda
In reply to this post by Norbert Schlemmer
Hi Norbert,

The answer it yes, sort of.  Assuming you are running in 64 bit EMSRV, that's not really important, but you then need to start with a 32 bit image and load your stuff into it.  You should not have a problem with this.  Unless you are doing something that is very 64 bit specific, you will be fine.  You then package your program.  Anything that is 32 bit specific in the VA Smalltalk code will come from the 32 bit image you are starting with.  The resulting packaged image will be 32 bit specific.  You then of course need to distribute 32 bit binaries (VM and such) with it.

If you have seen my posts about the Raspberry Pi program you may notice that it is a ARM computer and not Intel or AMD.  I do the development on Windows in a 32 bit image managed by 64 bit EMSRV.  I package the image on Windows and just copy the .icx to the Raspberry (it uses the 32 Raspbian OS).  I use the 32 bit binaries supplied by Instantiations as part of the ECAP program.  They are ARM and Linux specific but ARM is what counts the most.  You shouldn't have a problem packaging and distributing as you normally do.

Lou


On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:47:35 AM UTC-4, Norbert Schlemmer wrote:
Currently I'am using VA 9.1.1 x64 as development environment. But the runtime is x86 and I have to use VA 9.1.1 x86 to package the ICX.
Can the x64 version be used to package an image for the x86 runtime and vice versa ?
Thanks
Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Seth Berman
In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Hello Norbert,

To package a 64-bit runtime, 64-bit Vast must be used.
To package a 32-bit runtime, 32-bit Vast must be used.
To offline convert a 32-bit runtime to a 64-bit runtime, the convic utility that comes with 64-bit vast
64-bit runtimes can not be converted to 32-bit runtimes...you must load the code into a 32-bit image and package a 32-bit runtime from there

- Seth

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 9:20:12 AM UTC-4, marianopeck wrote:
Hi,

Quick answer from phone.. 
I think you can't but you may use iconv utility to convert the generated icx and ICs from x64 to x86. 

Others may have another idea.. 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 08:47 Norbert Schlemmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently I'am using VA 9.1.1 x64 as development environment. But the runtime is x86 and I have to use VA 9.1.1 x86 to package the ICX.
Can the x64 version be used to package an image for the x86 runtime and vice versa ?
Thanks
Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Hahahah s/iconv/convic 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 10:56 Seth Berman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Norbert,

To package a 64-bit runtime, 64-bit Vast must be used.
To package a 32-bit runtime, 32-bit Vast must be used.
To offline convert a 32-bit runtime to a 64-bit runtime, the convic utility that comes with 64-bit vast
64-bit runtimes can not be converted to 32-bit runtimes...you must load the code into a 32-bit image and package a 32-bit runtime from there

- Seth

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 9:20:12 AM UTC-4, marianopeck wrote:
Hi,

Quick answer from phone.. 
I think you can't but you may use iconv utility to convert the generated icx and ICs from x64 to x86. 

Others may have another idea.. 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 08:47 Norbert Schlemmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently I'am using VA 9.1.1 x64 as development environment. But the runtime is x86 and I have to use VA 9.1.1 x86 to package the ICX.
Can the x64 version be used to package an image for the x86 runtime and vice versa ?
Thanks
Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Norbert Schlemmer
In reply to this post by Louis LaBrunda
Hello all
ok, fine and thanks for your response, I understand.

the packaging instructions of our headless application are based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions and that works fine for the x86 and x64 runtime.

For the Raspberry Pi OS, the VA 9.1.1 / x86 based image packaged with the same packaging instructions based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions under Windows can be used with the x86 binaries of the 32 Raspbian OS ?
Are the x86 binaries for Raspberry still available?

Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Hi norbert, 

I am to take a plane now to Smalltalks conference... So short answer... Yes that abt packaging instruction should work for raspbian. 

Last raspberry VM shipped was some ecap but I made internal builds that I shared with Louis. I can share that with you too if you are interested... That way you can use latest VM and image for 9.1 x86. 

I will be presenting this and more on Wednesday. Presentations will be recorded so I hope to get the video too. 

We would likely more folks to get involved with VA and IoT.

Best, 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 12:11 Norbert Schlemmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello all
ok, fine and thanks for your response, I understand.

the packaging instructions of our headless application are based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions and that works fine for the x86 and x64 runtime.

For the Raspberry Pi OS, the VA 9.1.1 / x86 based image packaged with the same packaging instructions based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions under Windows can be used with the x86 binaries of the 32 Raspbian OS ?
Are the x86 binaries for Raspberry still available?

Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Seth Berman
In reply to this post by Norbert Schlemmer
Hello Norbert,

The PI actually uses an ARM processor, so the binaries are ARM compiled virtual machines, ENVY and other supporting dlls.
But this may just be a jargon issue...so '32-bit' should be used in place of 'x86'.

The Raspbian OS is just Linux, so as far as VA is concerned...it's running on Linux...or UNIX for the packaging instructions.
It will answer 'arm' if you query the cpuArchitecture, but that is basically the only difference in the image.
The only thing that is different in a unix deployment are the binaries themselves...very similar to Linux/AIX/Solaris.

Last year, we made the Raspberry PI builds available in the ECAP (Early Customer Access Program) releases.  We will continue to do that this year.
In the next couple of internal builds we will look at doing our first ECAP.

For future, assuming there is enough interest, we will look at doing supported versions.
We'll have some videos coming out pretty soon showing what VAST on IOT looks like and some interesting use cases it can fill.

Mariano is at the FAST smalltalks conference in Argentina as we speak showing a very interesting VAST IOT demo.

We showed an interesting demo at ESUG with Vast on IOT, as well...but unfortunately there was no video available so we will need to re-shoot that

-- Seth

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:11:27 AM UTC-4, Norbert Schlemmer wrote:
Hello all
ok, fine and thanks for your response, I understand.

the packaging instructions of our headless application are based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions and that works fine for the x86 and x64 runtime.

For the Raspberry Pi OS, the VA 9.1.1 / x86 based image packaged with the same packaging instructions based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions under Windows can be used with the x86 binaries of the 32 Raspbian OS ?
Are the x86 binaries for Raspberry still available?

Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Norbert Schlemmer
Seth,
thanks for your excellent explanation!

... the subject of this discussion should be "... 32 bit vs. 64 bit".

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Seth Berman
Greetings Norbert,

Sounds good.  I have edited the post subject to reflect your suggested change.
Good questions.

-- Seth

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 12:05:18 PM UTC-4, Norbert Schlemmer wrote:
Seth,
thanks for your excellent explanation!

... the subject of this discussion should be "... 32 bit vs. 64 bit".

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Louis LaBrunda
In reply to this post by Norbert Schlemmer
Hi Norbert,

May I ask what is your target environment?

You mention the Raspberry and headless, is that it?  I based my headless instructions for the Raspberry on AbtXDSingleImagePackagingInstructions.  But if what you are doing works, I wouldn't mess with it.

I probably shouldn't share the binaries Mariano has shared with me but since he is off having fun and may be too busy to share them, I will unless he or Seth jumps in and tells me not to.  The binaries released with the last ECAP only work for the full Raspbian (with the X stuff in it) and not Raspbian Lite.

Lou


On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:11:27 AM UTC-4, Norbert Schlemmer wrote:
Hello all
ok, fine and thanks for your response, I understand.

the packaging instructions of our headless application are based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions and that works fine for the x86 and x64 runtime.

For the Raspberry Pi OS, the VA 9.1.1 / x86 based image packaged with the same packaging instructions based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions under Windows can be used with the x86 binaries of the 32 Raspbian OS ?
Are the x86 binaries for Raspberry still available?

Norbert

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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Hi guys, 

I just send the server runtimes for ARM to Norbert.

Cheers, 

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:03 PM Louis LaBrunda <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Norbert,

May I ask what is your target environment?

You mention the Raspberry and headless, is that it?  I based my headless instructions for the Raspberry on AbtXDSingleImagePackagingInstructions.  But if what you are doing works, I wouldn't mess with it.

I probably shouldn't share the binaries Mariano has shared with me but since he is off having fun and may be too busy to share them, I will unless he or Seth jumps in and tells me not to.  The binaries released with the last ECAP only work for the full Raspbian (with the X stuff in it) and not Raspbian Lite.

Lou


On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:11:27 AM UTC-4, Norbert Schlemmer wrote:
Hello all
ok, fine and thanks for your response, I understand.

the packaging instructions of our headless application are based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions and that works fine for the x86 and x64 runtime.

For the Raspberry Pi OS, the VA 9.1.1 / x86 based image packaged with the same packaging instructions based on AbtBaseEpRuntimeImagePackagingInstructions under Windows can be used with the x86 binaries of the 32 Raspbian OS ?
Are the x86 binaries for Raspberry still available?

Norbert

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Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.
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Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Norbert Schlemmer
Am Montag, 29. Oktober 2018 21:30:07 UTC+1 schrieb marianopeck:
Hi guys, 

I just send the server runtimes for ARM to Norbert.

Cheers,

Many thanks to Mariano for sharing the runtime and the support to get the "Hello world" running at the Raspberry!
I want to know and understand XD packaging and to get a VAST program running at the Raspberry (without a "real project")

Cheers, Norbert

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VAST on Raspberry [WAS] Re: Packaging Setup VA 9.1.1 : x86 and x64

Mariano Martinez Peck-2


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 7:57 AM Norbert Schlemmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am Montag, 29. Oktober 2018 21:30:07 UTC+1 schrieb marianopeck:
Hi guys, 

I just send the server runtimes for ARM to Norbert.

Cheers,

Many thanks to Mariano for sharing the runtime and the support to get the "Hello world" running at the Raspberry!
I want to know and understand XD packaging and to get a VAST program running at the Raspberry (without a "real project")


Hi Norbert, 

I am glad you made it work. Go get some fun now!! 

If others are interested as well, just let me know. 

Best regards, 

 

Cheers, Norbert

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