Parcels with overrides?
Locked
Parcels with overrides?
 
|
As you all know, currently one cannot export a parcel with overridden code,
which brings up a question whether it is at all possible to provide an option to either export the actual method belonging to the package being exported or the method belonging to the package that overrides it? Its slightly annoying that neither of those is available and it simply stops in its tracks. Cheers! -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. |
smime.p7s (4K) |
|
Boris,
There is an implementation of Parcels with Overrides in the review process. I hope that this will be done for 7.5. It is actually part of Smalltalk Archives. Georg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 01:35 An: [hidden email] Betreff: Parcels with overrides? As you all know, currently one cannot export a parcel with overridden code, which brings up a question whether it is at all possible to provide an option to either export the actual method belonging to the package being exported or the method belonging to the package that overrides it? Its slightly annoying that neither of those is available and it simply stops in its tracks. Cheers! -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. |
Re: AW: Parcels with overrides?
|
|
Georg Heeg wrote:
> Boris, > > There is an implementation of Parcels with Overrides in the review process. > I hope that this will be done for 7.5. It is actually part of Smalltalk > Archives. > > Georg Oh that's exciting, whats Smalltalk Archives? ;) -Boris > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 01:35 > An: [hidden email] > Betreff: Parcels with overrides? > > As you all know, currently one cannot export a parcel with overridden code, > which brings up a question whether it is at all possible to provide an > option to either export the actual method belonging to the package being > exported or the method belonging to the package that overrides it? Its > slightly annoying that neither of those is available and it simply stops in > its tracks. > > Cheers! > > -Boris > |
|
|
Boris,
Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are tar files with parcel files in them. Georg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 07:57 An: Georg Heeg Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] Betreff: Re: AW: Parcels with overrides? Georg Heeg wrote: > Boris, > > There is an implementation of Parcels with Overrides in the review process. > I hope that this will be done for 7.5. It is actually part of Smalltalk > Archives. > > Georg Oh that's exciting, whats Smalltalk Archives? ;) -Boris > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 01:35 > An: [hidden email] > Betreff: Parcels with overrides? > > As you all know, currently one cannot export a parcel with overridden code, > which brings up a question whether it is at all possible to provide an > option to either export the actual method belonging to the package being > exported or the method belonging to the package that overrides it? Its > slightly annoying that neither of those is available and it simply stops in > its tracks. > > Cheers! > > -Boris > |
Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides?
|
|
Georg Heeg wrote:
> Boris, > > Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with > sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the > bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are tar > files with parcel files in them. Hmm, that sounds neat. Is this the first public mention of this project or did I just miss a memo somewhere? What's the ultimate goal of this? Cheers! -Boris > > Georg > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 07:57 > An: Georg Heeg > Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] > Betreff: Re: AW: Parcels with overrides? > > Georg Heeg wrote: >> Boris, >> >> There is an implementation of Parcels with Overrides in the review > process. >> I hope that this will be done for 7.5. It is actually part of Smalltalk >> Archives. >> >> Georg > > Oh that's exciting, whats Smalltalk Archives? ;) > > -Boris > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 01:35 >> An: [hidden email] >> Betreff: Parcels with overrides? >> >> As you all know, currently one cannot export a parcel with overridden > code, >> which brings up a question whether it is at all possible to provide an >> option to either export the actual method belonging to the package being >> exported or the method belonging to the package that overrides it? Its >> slightly annoying that neither of those is available and it simply stops > in >> its tracks. >> >> Cheers! >> >> -Boris >> > > > |
Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides?
|
|
This is being done as part of the ObjectStudio 8 (ObjectStudio on VW) project.
At 02:27 AM 5/30/2006, you wrote: >Georg Heeg wrote: >>Boris, >>Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with >>sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the >>bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are tar >>files with parcel files in them. > >Hmm, that sounds neat. Is this the first public mention of this project or >did I just miss a memo somewhere? What's the ultimate goal of this? > >Cheers! > >-Boris > > >>Georg >>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 >>07:57 >>An: Georg Heeg >>Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] >>Betreff: Re: AW: Parcels with overrides? >>Georg Heeg wrote: >>>Boris, >>> >>>There is an implementation of Parcels with Overrides in the review >>process. >>>I hope that this will be done for 7.5. It is actually part of Smalltalk >>>Archives. >>> >>>Georg >>Oh that's exciting, whats Smalltalk Archives? ;) >>-Boris >> >>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>Von: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. >>>Mai 2006 01:35 >>>An: [hidden email] >>>Betreff: Parcels with overrides? >>> >>>As you all know, currently one cannot export a parcel with overridden >>code, >>>which brings up a question whether it is at all possible to provide an >>>option to either export the actual method belonging to the package being >>>exported or the method belonging to the package that overrides it? Its >>>slightly annoying that neither of those is available and it simply stops >>in >>>its tracks. >>> >>>Cheers! >>> >>>-Boris >> <Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library> James Robertson, Product Manager, Cincom Smalltalk http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView |
Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides?
|
|
In reply to this post by Georg Heeg
sort of the concept of Java jars files. What would also be very
interesting is to support non-code resources i.e. whatever external resources the bundle in question needs to do whatever it does i.e. graphic images, sound files, configuration files etc, this probably should include the replication of whatever necessary folder structure to contain these external non-code resources On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:16:44 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: > Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with > sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the > bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are tar > files with parcel files in them. > Georg -- Charles A. Monteiro |
AW: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides?
|
|
Charles,
This sounds a really interesting idea. When we implemented Smalltalk Archives Bundles could not yet have arbitrary files and we have not used the files feature so far. From the idea that a Smalltalk Archive technically is a tar file and the tar implementation we use can handle writing and reading of files in the first place, this should not be difficult to add when we have understood the precise features of files in a bundle. Thank you for the hint Georg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 16:22 An: Georg Heeg; 'Boris Popov' Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides? sort of the concept of Java jars files. What would also be very interesting is to support non-code resources i.e. whatever external resources the bundle in question needs to do whatever it does i.e. graphic images, sound files, configuration files etc, this probably should include the replication of whatever necessary folder structure to contain these external non-code resources On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:16:44 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: > Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with > sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the > bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are tar > files with parcel files in them. > Georg -- Charles A. Monteiro |
Re: AW: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides?
|
|
I sort of did this with my p2p OpentalkMatrix stuff i.e. there was a meta
object that knew all of this and so when a node on the p2p network downloaded a component (code that does stuff essentially a modified parcel file) all supporting resources came with it and folder structures were recreated. I took the lazy path though :) and simply just went on the necessary subsequent trips to the source node. I also had a password based security scheme. Anyhow, if you all finish this and then perhaps but not necessary somebody does parcel signing then it would be cool to integrate it to my little toy i.e. OpentalkMatrix. Of course , even if all of this wonderful stuff is accomplished it will still do me little good unless Cincom finishes fixing the NAT issue with Opentalk ST-ST. Sorry Martin could not pass the chance to give you a good stab :) Pls do announce it on this list when you have even something at beta level i.e. that includes external resources. thanks -Charles On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:36:05 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: > Charles, > > This sounds a really interesting idea. When we implemented Smalltalk > Archives Bundles could not yet have arbitrary files and we have not used > the > files feature so far. From the idea that a Smalltalk Archive technically > is > a tar file and the tar implementation we use can handle writing and > reading > of files in the first place, this should not be difficult to add when we > have understood the precise features of files in a bundle. > > Thank you for the hint > > Georg > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 16:22 > An: Georg Heeg; 'Boris Popov' > Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides? > > sort of the concept of Java jars files. What would also be very > interesting is to support non-code resources i.e. whatever external > resources the bundle in question needs to do whatever it does i.e. > graphic > images, sound files, configuration files etc, this probably should > include > the replication of whatever necessary folder structure to contain these > external non-code resources > > > On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:16:44 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with >> sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the >> bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are tar >> files with parcel files in them. >> Georg > > > -- Charles A. Monteiro http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org http://www.monteirosfusion.com http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com |
[Opentalk NAT] was: [Parcels with overrides]
|
|
With regards to Opentalk st-st being able to pass through NAT, that
would be very valuable to us as well. We are using Opentalk on the LAN now but would love to be able to use it across the internet without having to resort to SOAP. Mike Mike Hales Engineering Manager KnowledgeScape Charles A. Monteiro wrote: > I sort of did this with my p2p OpentalkMatrix stuff i.e. there was a > meta object that knew all of this and so when a node on the p2p > network downloaded a component (code that does stuff essentially a > modified parcel file) all supporting resources came with it and folder > structures were recreated. I took the lazy path though :) and simply > just went on the necessary subsequent trips to the source node. I also > had a password based security scheme. > > Anyhow, if you all finish this and then perhaps but not necessary > somebody does parcel signing then it would be cool to integrate it to > my little toy i.e. OpentalkMatrix. > > Of course , even if all of this wonderful stuff is accomplished it > will still do me little good unless Cincom finishes fixing the NAT > issue with Opentalk ST-ST. > > Sorry Martin could not pass the chance to give you a good stab :) > > Pls do announce it on this list when you have even something at beta > level i.e. that includes external resources. > > thanks > > -Charles > > > > On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:36:05 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Charles, >> >> This sounds a really interesting idea. When we implemented Smalltalk >> Archives Bundles could not yet have arbitrary files and we have not >> used the >> files feature so far. From the idea that a Smalltalk Archive >> technically is >> a tar file and the tar implementation we use can handle writing and >> reading >> of files in the first place, this should not be difficult to add when we >> have understood the precise features of files in a bundle. >> >> Thank you for the hint >> >> Georg >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 16:22 >> An: Georg Heeg; 'Boris Popov' >> Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] >> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides? >> >> sort of the concept of Java jars files. What would also be very >> interesting is to support non-code resources i.e. whatever external >> resources the bundle in question needs to do whatever it does i.e. >> graphic >> images, sound files, configuration files etc, this probably should >> include >> the replication of whatever necessary folder structure to contain these >> external non-code resources >> >> >> On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:16:44 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with >>> sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the >>> bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are >>> tar >>> files with parcel files in them. >>> Georg >> >> >> > > > > --Charles A. Monteiro > http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org > http://www.monteirosfusion.com > http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com > > |
|
|
Yes, better NAT and firewall traversal for STST protocol is a priority task on the 7.5 task list. However note that as of VW 7.4, you should be able to do at least as much with STST as you can with SOAP and other XML based protocols. Here's the relevant note from the release notes: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Improving firewall traversal capabilities of Opentalk-STST Opentalk-STST checks the receiver of each incoming request to verify that it is indeed a local object. However this check is based on IP addresses which creates a problem with firewalls or with any other network setup involving NAT (network address translation). A server in a DMZ zone is at least one firewall away from the internet and so the chances that the IP address in the request receiver's reference will match the IP address of the host that runs the server is virtually zero. As a consequence, Opentalk servers were unnecessarily hostile to firewalls and internet. However an Opentalk server should be able to work at least as well as a WS/SOAP server if you avoid passing objects by reference (which is exactly what WEB/SOAP communication boils down to). Therefore we have added configurable locality check support, see AdaptorConfiguration>>localityTest:. The check is expressed as a configurable 2 argument block which takes an ObjRef and an Adaptor instance and answers true if the reference is local to that adaptor and false otherwise. This allows users to use customized locality tests that can take into account any external access points of the broker. -------------------------------------------------------------------- So whatever you can do with SOAP, you should be able to do with STST as well, even with regards to firewall and NAT traversal. What isn't done is improving STST protocol so that full capabilities of STST are working across NATs and firewalls. This is a big job, but it's a priority item now and we hope to move it forward as much as we can. HTH, Martin Mike Hales wrote: > With regards to Opentalk st-st being able to pass through NAT, that > would be very valuable to us as well. We are using Opentalk on the LAN > now but would love to be able to use it across the internet without > having to resort to SOAP. > > Mike > > Mike Hales > Engineering Manager > KnowledgeScape > > Charles A. Monteiro wrote: > >> I sort of did this with my p2p OpentalkMatrix stuff i.e. there was a >> meta object that knew all of this and so when a node on the p2p >> network downloaded a component (code that does stuff essentially a >> modified parcel file) all supporting resources came with it and folder >> structures were recreated. I took the lazy path though :) and simply >> just went on the necessary subsequent trips to the source node. I also >> had a password based security scheme. >> >> Anyhow, if you all finish this and then perhaps but not necessary >> somebody does parcel signing then it would be cool to integrate it to >> my little toy i.e. OpentalkMatrix. >> >> Of course , even if all of this wonderful stuff is accomplished it >> will still do me little good unless Cincom finishes fixing the NAT >> issue with Opentalk ST-ST. >> >> Sorry Martin could not pass the chance to give you a good stab :) >> >> Pls do announce it on this list when you have even something at beta >> level i.e. that includes external resources. >> >> thanks >> >> -Charles >> >> >> >> On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:36:05 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Charles, >>> >>> This sounds a really interesting idea. When we implemented Smalltalk >>> Archives Bundles could not yet have arbitrary files and we have not >>> used the >>> files feature so far. From the idea that a Smalltalk Archive >>> technically is >>> a tar file and the tar implementation we use can handle writing and >>> reading >>> of files in the first place, this should not be difficult to add when we >>> have understood the precise features of files in a bundle. >>> >>> Thank you for the hint >>> >>> Georg >>> >>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 16:22 >>> An: Georg Heeg; 'Boris Popov' >>> Cc: 'Boris Popov'; [hidden email] >>> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Parcels with overrides? >>> >>> sort of the concept of Java jars files. What would also be very >>> interesting is to support non-code resources i.e. whatever external >>> resources the bundle in question needs to do whatever it does i.e. >>> graphic >>> images, sound files, configuration files etc, this probably should >>> include >>> the replication of whatever necessary folder structure to contain these >>> external non-code resources >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:16:44 -0400, Georg Heeg <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Smalltalk Archives (.star files without sources and .store files with >>>> sources) serve to save and distribute bundles with all features of the >>>> bundles themselves and all their subcomponents. Technically they are >>>> tar >>>> files with parcel files in them. >>>> Georg >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --Charles A. Monteiro >> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org >> http://www.monteirosfusion.com >> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com >> >> > > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Mike Hales
Martin:
I agree that this is no doubt valuable and I would myself definitely rather do ST-ST even if I only could rely on pass by value semantics than do SOAP. At least the day seems to be getting closer after all of this time i.e. since the NAT issue is now officially on a real list. Even though making OpentalkMatrix work out in the real world of the Internet is dear to my heart we actually have extensions to our business product which have been put on hold because of this NAT thing. To be fair we had some other more pressing issues. Anyhow, does 7.5 mean that it may be available for Q1 2007? thanks > >Yes, better NAT and firewall traversal for STST protocol is a priority >task on the 7.5 task list. However note that as of VW 7.4, you should be >able to do at least as much with STST as you can with SOAP and other XML >based protocols. Here's the relevant note from the release notes: -- Charles A. Monteiro http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org http://www.monteirosfusion.com http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com |
|
|
Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
> At least the day seems to be getting closer after all of this time > i.e. since the NAT issue is now officially on a real list. Even > though making OpentalkMatrix work out in the real world of the > Internet is dear to my heart we actually have extensions to our > business product which have been put on hold because of this NAT > thing. To be fair we had some other more pressing issues. Anyhow, > does 7.5 mean that it may be available for Q1 2007? Well if we want to get it into 7.5 it should be fully fleshed out by September and complete by the end of October or so. I have to admit that it's getting tight, but we'll see. If we slip, then it will have to wait for 7.5.1, but whatever we have will be immediately available in the public repository regardless of any release dates, as usually. So in the worst case you'll at least have access to the most recent stuff. Martin |
«
Return to VisualWorks
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |