Smalltalk › Gnu

Persistency

_‹ Previous Topic Next Topic _›

Classic

List

Threaded

10 messages Options

Giuseppe

Persistency

Hi,

I would like to start a project, and I think I will try it under GST.

The project, will be a SaaS application. I don't know under what
framework. Iliad? I don't know. I'm in planning.

For the moment, I would like to know, what type of persistence usable
from GST, could be the best for this type of site.

DBI (MySql, Postgres)? some tutorial or something to learn how to use
it?, other type of persistence?

Cheers.

Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz
Blog: http://www.lordzealon.com
Twitter & Skype & GoogleTalk accounts: glpunzi

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Paolo Bonzini-2

Re: Persistency

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 17:11, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to start a project, and I think I will try it under GST.
>
> The project, will be a SaaS application. I don't know under what framework.
> Iliad? I don't know. I'm in planning.

Yes, why not.

> DBI (MySql, Postgres)? some tutorial or something to learn how to use it?,
> other type of persistence?

MySQL or Postgres are a good choice. Alternatively SandstoneDb, or
ObjectDumper, or just image-based persistance. If you don't use a
"real" database, however, I'd develop also a secondary persistance
scheme (based on XML or something like that) to use in case something
goes wrong in the image.

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Bèrto ëd Sèra

Re: Persistency

IMHO it really depends on what you are doing, i.e., whether you need
relational tables to enforce (for example) basic data robustness from
foreign inputs or not. How big your DB is going to be, etc. Iliad is
fantastic, if you try it you are going to be happy about it :)

Berto

On 28 May 2010 18:31, Paolo Bonzini <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 17:11, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to start a project, and I think I will try it under GST.
>>
>> The project, will be a SaaS application. I don't know under what framework.
>> Iliad? I don't know. I'm in planning.
>
> Yes, why not.
>
>> DBI (MySql, Postgres)? some tutorial or something to learn how to use it?,
>> other type of persistence?
>
> MySQL or Postgres are a good choice. Alternatively SandstoneDb, or
> ObjectDumper, or just image-based persistance. If you don't use a
> "real" database, however, I'd develop also a secondary persistance
> scheme (based on XML or something like that) to use in case something
> goes wrong in the image.
>
> Paolo
>
> _______________________________________________
> help-smalltalk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk
>

--
==============================
Constitution du 24 juin 1793 - Article 35. - Quand le gouvernement
viole les droits du peuple, l'insurrection est, pour le peuple et pour
chaque portion du peuple, le plus sacré des droits et le plus
indispensable des devoirs.

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Giuseppe

Re: Persistency

In reply to this post by Paolo Bonzini-2

El 28/05/2010, a las 17:31, Paolo Bonzini escribió:

>
>> DBI (MySql, Postgres)? some tutorial or something to learn how to
>> use it?,
>> other type of persistence?
>
> MySQL or Postgres are a good choice. Alternatively SandstoneDb, or
> ObjectDumper, or just image-based persistance. If you don't use a
> "real" database, however, I'd develop also a secondary persistance
> scheme (based on XML or something like that) to use in case something
> goes wrong in the image.

Yes, I though about this.My initial idea is working in memory with
some persistence to this.

I don't know how exactly SandstoneDB works, I only readed a little
about it, but one of my ideas, is take it, study it a little, and
modify to persist to plain text in a legible format (I don't know if
SandstoneDB do this....something like YAML), for a second parallel
project I have in mind with a friend (a txt db). A little concept, in
spanish, from begining of 2009 ( http://www.lordzealon.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gnustep:idea_principal
)

The problem with my project TXTDB, is, thath was born as a one-user
database. And for this project, I'm worried because, I don't know
nothing about developing DBs, and Object DBs less :P and this, could
be an ambitious project. What happen with multiuser? This needs an
engine controlling transactions, locks, and so on, and I think I don't
have time and knowledge to afford something like this. Probably, in
the future? I don't know now.

About the main topic, the SaaS project, will be a little bills/quotes
application. And will be more than one user at time working with the
app.

With SaaS concept in mind, is probably will be more than one user,
from more than one company. I suppose, in this situation, each company
may need his own instance of GST.

For all of this, I asked for the best option well knowed and stable.

Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz
Blog: http://www.lordzealon.com
Twitter & Skype & GoogleTalk accounts: glpunzi

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Nicolas Petton

Re: Persistency

Hi,

I think that except if you already know you will need to scale or use a
particular approach, you shouldn't worry about that while developping
your application, and just dump your data to be able to load it back. I
think that's one of the great things with Smalltalk, you can develop
your application and write prototypes without worrying about boring
details like this one :D

At the end, maybe you won't need more than serialization, especially
because you plan to sell it as SaaS with one instance of gst per
customer. IMO using one image/instance of gst per customer with a global
dump of his data is most of the time enough.

And if you want to use a Relational DB, I would use ROE with GST. I was
amazed to discover how well integrated it is -- and this is one more
thing I should congratulate Paolo for ;-).

Cheers,
Nico (from Genova)

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

signature.asc (205 bytes) Download Attachment

Giuseppe

Re: Persistency

Hi Nico (from Spain :D )

Thanks for your comments.

There are some site with ROE documented?

Cheers.

El 29/05/2010, a las 10:40, Nicolas Petton escribió:

> Hi,
>
> I think that except if you already know you will need to scale or
> use a
> particular approach, you shouldn't worry about that while developping
> your application, and just dump your data to be able to load it
> back. I
> think that's one of the great things with Smalltalk, you can develop
> your application and write prototypes without worrying about boring
> details like this one :D
>
> At the end, maybe you won't need more than serialization, especially
> because you plan to sell it as SaaS with one instance of gst per
> customer. IMO using one image/instance of gst per customer with a
> global
> dump of his data is most of the time enough.
>
> And if you want to use a Relational DB, I would use ROE with GST. I
> was
> amazed to discover how well integrated it is -- and this is one more
> thing I should congratulate Paolo for ;-).
>
> Cheers,
> Nico (from Genova)

Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz
Blog: http://www.lordzealon.com
Twitter & Skype & GoogleTalk accounts: glpunzi

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Nicolas Petton

Re: Persistency

Le samedi 29 mai 2010 à 21:26 +0200, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz a écrit :
> Hi Nico (from Spain :D )
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> There are some site with ROE documented?

AFAIK, there are only the code itself, the unit tests (very helpful) and
some blog posts from Avi Bryant.
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/avi/blogView?searchCategory=databases

Cheers,
Nico

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

signature.asc (205 bytes) Download Attachment

Tim Felgentreff

Re: Persistency

In reply to this post by Giuseppe

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 28, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz wrote:

>
> El 28/05/2010, a las 17:31, Paolo Bonzini escribió:
>
>>
>>> DBI (MySql, Postgres)? some tutorial or something to learn how to use it?,
>>> other type of persistence?
>>
>> MySQL or Postgres are a good choice. Alternatively SandstoneDb, or
>> ObjectDumper, or just image-based persistance. If you don't use a
>> "real" database, however, I'd develop also a secondary persistance
>> scheme (based on XML or something like that) to use in case something
>> goes wrong in the image.
>
>
> Yes, I though about this.My initial idea is working in memory with some persistence to this.
>
> I don't know how exactly SandstoneDB works, I only readed a little about it, but one of my ideas, is take it, study it a little, and modify to persist to plain text in a legible format (I don't know if SandstoneDB do this....something like YAML), for a second parallel project I have in mind with a friend (a txt db). A little concept, in spanish, from begining of 2009 ( http://www.lordzealon.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gnustep:idea_principal )
>
> The problem with my project TXTDB, is, thath was born as a one-user database. And for this project, I'm worried because, I don't know nothing about developing DBs, and Object DBs less :P and this, could be an ambitious project. What happen with multiuser? This needs an engine controlling transactions, locks, and so on, and I think I don't have time and knowledge to afford something like this. Probably, in the future? I don't know now.

If you don't care for a relational DB, why not use CouchDB? You get JSON storage, merging support and things like that for free. The Squeak CouchDB driver is pretty good, too, not sure about GST, but shouldn't be that hard to port.

Regards,
Tim
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkwIrukACgkQLbWJItnd6Cw8RACgySrIfr/kc9XzMpINfrDs8tQb
BqAAoMR7BxYBxgPwkFGB+x+ocLGkpj3i
=vb1Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Nicolas Petton

Re: Persistency

Le vendredi 04 juin 2010 à 09:44 +0200, Tim Felgentreff a écrit :
> If you don't care for a relational DB, why not use CouchDB? You get
> JSON storage, merging support and things like that for free. The
> Squeak CouchDB driver is pretty good, too, not sure about GST, but
> shouldn't be that hard to port.
>

I would be quite interested in a CouchDB driver for GST too :)

Nico

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

signature.asc (205 bytes) Download Attachment

Tim Felgentreff

Re: Persistency

Hi
I exported JSON and SCouchDB from Squeaksource to gst and started fixing a few incompatibilites. JSON tests have a few failures, it works for simple data, though (associations and numbers with the '123e2' notation are broken - UTF8 gives errors, but that's also in Squeak Trunk atm).

I haven't converted the test for SCouchDB, yet (I'm using Gitocello for automatic file-out and conversion, and for some reason it breaks on the SCouchDBAdapter test class).
No matter anyway, as the CouchDB adapter to the databse isn't working yet (it uses SocketStream and NetNameResolver and I have not found the time to find alternatives to those classes in gst). Converting to and from couch documents should work, though.

If you have time to burn and are interested, the projects are at github.com/timfel/JSON and github.com/timfel/SCouchDB

Regards,
Tim

On Jun 13, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:

> Le vendredi 04 juin 2010 à 09:44 +0200, Tim Felgentreff a écrit :
>> If you don't care for a relational DB, why not use CouchDB? You get
>> JSON storage, merging support and things like that for free. The
>> Squeak CouchDB driver is pretty good, too, not sure about GST, but
>> shouldn't be that hard to port.
>>
>
> I would be quite interested in a CouchDB driver for GST too :)
>
> Nico

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk