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Petri nets and workflow patterns

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NorbertHartl

Petri nets and workflow patterns

Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?

thanks,

Norbert

SergeStinckwich

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?

We have done some work with one student of Alexandre about BPMN:
http://a4bp.com/

and there is PNTalk also:
https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/PNTalk

Long time ago I was able to do process mining from logs and generate Petri Nets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf80t32v-0

Regards,
--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

NorbertHartl

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

> Am 10.05.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?
>
> We have done some work with one student of Alexandre about BPMN:
> http://a4bp.com/
>
I downloaded the app but it opens with a black screen on my Mac laptop.

> and there is PNTalk also:
> https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/PNTalk
>
Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

> Long time ago I was able to do process mining from logs and generate Petri Nets:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf80t32v-0

That is really close to what I want to play with. Did you ever encounter van der Aalst workflow pattern in that context. Do you know any material comparing the approaches?

thank you very much,

Norbert

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

Norbert

I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as in microworkflow).

because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in Pharo

Stef

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 10.05.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?
>
> We have done some work with one student of Alexandre about BPMN:
> http://a4bp.com/
>
I downloaded the app but it opens with a black screen on my Mac laptop.

> and there is PNTalk also:
> https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/PNTalk
>
Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

> Long time ago I was able to do process mining from logs and generate Petri Nets:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf80t32v-0

That is really close to what I want to play with. Did you ever encounter van der Aalst workflow pattern in that context. Do you know any material comparing the approaches?

thank you very much,

Norbert

NorbertHartl

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

Hi Stef,

Am 10.05.2017 um 22:09 schrieb Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

Norbert

I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as in microworkflow).
because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in Pharo

I'm interested in workflow but came to petri nets as they are similar. But I don't know what is the real difference between those two. I've read a bit about van der Aalst workflow patterns and a revision of Bröger for them. But I know too little of the topic.

We have more projects where we choose a state machine in order to properly manage state changes in our applications. In some projects the transitions are simple and clear so that they can be described generically. And that brings me to workflow and petri nets. A more generic approach will lower the amount of code to be written and opens a way to serialize the flow, have a DSL for it or use it together with Roassal.

Norbert

Stef

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 10.05.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?
>
> We have done some work with one student of Alexandre about BPMN:
> http://a4bp.com/
>
I downloaded the app but it opens with a black screen on my Mac laptop.

> and there is PNTalk also:
> https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/PNTalk
>
Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

> Long time ago I was able to do process mining from logs and generate Petri Nets:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf80t32v-0

That is really close to what I want to play with. Did you ever encounter van der Aalst workflow pattern in that context. Do you know any material comparing the approaches?

thank you very much,

Norbert

SergeStinckwich

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by NorbertHartl

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> Am 10.05.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?
>>
>> We have done some work with one student of Alexandre about BPMN:
>> http://a4bp.com/
>>
> I downloaded the app but it opens with a black screen on my Mac laptop.

Yes this is the usual story .... software rots at the end.
I guess you are using last version of mac os x and the VM provided on
the web site does not work anymore.

Give me 3 students and I will change this situation ;-)
I want to continue this work but I have to find motivated students.

>> and there is PNTalk also:
>> https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/PNTalk
>>
> Thanks, that is what I was looking for.
>
>> Long time ago I was able to do process mining from logs and generate Petri Nets:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf80t32v-0
>
> That is really close to what I want to play with. Did you ever encounter van der Aalst workflow pattern in that context. Do you know any material comparing the approaches?

I know van der Aalst work but I don't know exactly what do you mean by
workflow pattern. The one described here:
http://www.workflowpatterns.com/patterns/control/index.php

Regards,
--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

SergeStinckwich

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by Stephane Ducasse-3

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Stephane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Norbert
>
> I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as
> in microworkflow).
> because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in
> Pharo

I guess you talk about this: http://micro-workflow.com/phdthesis/

--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

NorbertHartl

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich

> Am 11.05.2017 um 09:58 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 10.05.2017 um 17:46 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Are there any resources regarding petri nets or control flow…/workflow patterns in pharo or smalltalk?
>>>
>>> We have done some work with one student of Alexandre about BPMN:
>>> http://a4bp.com/
>>>
>> I downloaded the app but it opens with a black screen on my Mac laptop.
>
> Yes this is the usual story .... software rots at the end.
> I guess you are using last version of mac os x and the VM provided on
> the web site does not work anymore.
>

Ah, right. I just need to use my own vm to start it. I'll try again :)

Norbert

> Give me 3 students and I will change this situation ;-)
> I want to continue this work but I have to find motivated students.
>
>>> and there is PNTalk also:
>>> https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/PNTalk
>>>
>> Thanks, that is what I was looking for.
>>
>>> Long time ago I was able to do process mining from logs and generate Petri Nets:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf80t32v-0
>>
>> That is really close to what I want to play with. Did you ever encounter van der Aalst workflow pattern in that context. Do you know any material comparing the approaches?
>
> I know van der Aalst work but I don't know exactly what do you mean by
> workflow pattern. The one described here:
> http://www.workflowpatterns.com/patterns/control/index.php
>
> Regards,
> --
> Serge Stinckwich
> UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
>

NorbertHartl

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich

> Am 11.05.2017 um 09:59 schrieb Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>:
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Stephane Ducasse
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Norbert
>>
>> I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as
>> in microworkflow).
>> because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in
>> Pharo
>
> I guess you talk about this: http://micro-workflow.com/phdthesis/
>

Is the source code available somewhere?

Norbert

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich

yes :)

I contacted the guy to ask for the smalltalk code but he never replied to me may be someone else should try.

stef

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Stephane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Norbert
>
> I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as
> in microworkflow).
> because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in
> Pharo

I guess you talk about this: http://micro-workflow.com/phdthesis/

--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

SergeStinckwich

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

I ask him but he don't have the code anymore, maybe this is possible to do a retroengineering from the PhD thesis ?

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 11 mai 2017 à 20:54, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> a écrit :

yes :)
I contacted the guy to ask for the smalltalk code but he never replied to me may be someone else should try.

stef

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Stephane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Norbert
>
> I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as
> in microworkflow).
> because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in
> Pharo

I guess you talk about this: http://micro-workflow.com/phdthesis/

--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

philippeback

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by Stephane Ducasse-3

I read that paper too and I was wondering about the trempoline piece he uses.

Is there someone having implemented that using Pharo? His code was VW.

Phil

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:54 PM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

yes :)
I contacted the guy to ask for the smalltalk code but he never replied to me may be someone else should try.

stef

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Stephane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Norbert
>
> I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as
> in microworkflow).
> because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in
> Pharo

I guess you talk about this: http://micro-workflow.com/phdthesis/

--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

philippeback

Re: Petri nets and workflow patterns

In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich

There is code in several papers, including this one:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lc2ev4841lzn9q0/Worfklow-Continuations.pdf?dl=0

Phil

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:07 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

I ask him but he don't have the code anymore, maybe this is possible to do a retroengineering from the PhD thesis ?

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 11 mai 2017 à 20:54, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> a écrit :

yes :)
I contacted the guy to ask for the smalltalk code but he never replied to me may be someone else should try.

stef

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Stephane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Norbert
>
> I know petri nets and I was wondering if you were interested in worklow (as
> in microworkflow).
> because I think that a simple extensible workflow library is missing in
> Pharo

I guess you talk about this: http://micro-workflow.com/phdthesis/

--
Serge Stinckwich
UCN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/