Pharo 1.4

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Pharo 1.4

abergel
Hi!

I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.

Clap to the integrators and contributors!

Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Pharo 1.4

Benjamin Van Ryseghem (Pharo)
Thank you :)

It's a cool reward to read such mails :)


Ben

On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
> I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.
>
> Clap to the integrators and contributors!
>
> Alexandre
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Pharo 1.4

Ilmari Vacklin
In reply to this post by abergel
On Monday, August 22, 2011 1:09:28 PM UTC+3, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
Hi!

I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.

I'd be interested in testing a new code completion tool too. I downloaded the unstable image from pharo-project.org, but its workspaces and the browser do not have code completion. Do I need to install additional packages?

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Re: Pharo 1.4

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by abergel

On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
> I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.
Hmmm... the reason is that there is no code completion in 1.4 yet.

The idea was to load OCompletion. So maybe we should not do that?


--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de


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Re: Pharo 1.4

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by abergel

On Aug 22, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Ilmari Vacklin wrote:

> On Monday, August 22, 2011 1:09:28 PM UTC+3, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
> Hi!
> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
> I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.
>
> I'd be interested in testing a new code completion tool too. I downloaded the unstable image from pharo-project.org, but its workspaces and the browser do not have code completion. Do I need to install additional packages?
>
1.4 has currently no enhanced completion installed.

This issue has the Gofer expression to load Ocompletion:

        http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4622

But maybe we should use Ecompletion instead? Or nothing?


--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de


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Re: Pharo 1.4

abergel
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
I vote for the current solution. It works pretty well. Yeah, there is no a smart 3 lines option, but the popup goes away when I press 'return'.

Alexandre


On 22 Aug 2011, at 13:36, Marcus Denker wrote:

>
> On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
>> I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.
> Hmmm... the reason is that there is no code completion in 1.4 yet.
>
> The idea was to load OCompletion. So maybe we should not do that?
>
>
> --
> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Pharo 1.4

abergel
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
Pressing Ctrl-q popups a list of possible selector.
It works well. I haven't checked where this comes from, but it contributes to my happiness :-D

Alexandre


On 22 Aug 2011, at 13:47, Marcus Denker wrote:

>
> On Aug 22, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Ilmari Vacklin wrote:
>
>> On Monday, August 22, 2011 1:09:28 PM UTC+3, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>> Hi!
>> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
>> I like the code completion tool, more stable than ocompletion.
>>
>> I'd be interested in testing a new code completion tool too. I downloaded the unstable image from pharo-project.org, but its workspaces and the browser do not have code completion. Do I need to install additional packages?
>>
> 1.4 has currently no enhanced completion installed.
>
> This issue has the Gofer expression to load Ocompletion:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4622
>
> But maybe we should use Ecompletion instead? Or nothing?
>
>
> --
> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Pharo 1.4

Ilmari Vacklin-2
On maanantai 22. elokuuta 2011 at 17.04, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
> Pressing Ctrl-q popups a list of possible selector.
> It works well. I haven't checked where this comes from, but it contributes to my happiness :-D
Indeed! It is somewhat hard to discover, though, and requires me to use arrow keys to select a completion, which is very slow compared to pressing tab as with OCompletion.

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Re: Pharo 1.4

garduino
In reply to this post by abergel
2011/8/22 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:
> Hi!
>
> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.

>
> Clap to the integrators and contributors!
>


Full agree, I switched also, starting with the rebuild of xmlrpc.

Thanks for 1.4, it rocks.

--
=================================================
Germán S. Arduino  <gsa @ arsol.net>   Twitter: garduino
Arduino Software & Web Hosting   http://www.arduinosoftware.com
PasswordsPro  http://www.passwordspro.com
=================================================
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Re: Pharo 1.4

Stéphane Ducasse
Guys please pay attention!
We love your trust but 1.4 is alpha - you know the stuff that can get strange behavior sometimes :).

Stef

On Aug 22, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:

> 2011/8/22 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
>
>>
>> Clap to the integrators and contributors!
>>
>
>
> Full agree, I switched also, starting with the rebuild of xmlrpc.
>
> Thanks for 1.4, it rocks.
>
> --
> =================================================
> Germán S. Arduino  <gsa @ arsol.net>   Twitter: garduino
> Arduino Software & Web Hosting   http://www.arduinosoftware.com
> PasswordsPro  http://www.passwordspro.com
> =================================================


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Re: Pharo 1.4

garduino
hehe, Don't worry we all know :)

Have a great time in Edimburgh!

2011/8/22 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

> Guys please pay attention!
> We love your trust but 1.4 is alpha - you know the stuff that can get strange behavior sometimes :).
>
> Stef
>
> On Aug 22, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:
>
>> 2011/8/22 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I now switched to Pharo 1.4. It is much more usable than 1.3 in my opinion.
>>
>>>
>>> Clap to the integrators and contributors!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Full agree, I switched also, starting with the rebuild of xmlrpc.
>>
>> Thanks for 1.4, it rocks.
>>
>> --
>> =================================================
>> Germán S. Arduino  <gsa @ arsol.net>   Twitter: garduino
>> Arduino Software & Web Hosting   http://www.arduinosoftware.com
>> PasswordsPro  http://www.passwordspro.com
>> =================================================
>
>
>



--
=================================================
Germán S. Arduino  <gsa @ arsol.net>   Twitter: garduino
Arduino Software & Web Hosting   http://www.arduinosoftware.com
PasswordsPro  http://www.passwordspro.com
=================================================

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Re: Pharo 1.4

gerard alis
In reply to this post by abergel
I don´t understand the behavior of any completion mechanism than works on Pharo/Squeak. When I type a literal, for example "1000" and later type "fac" appears always a great number of messages from system than nothing have relation with the object where we doing message call. I´ll wait for example #factorial message and other fews. I suppose that don´t easy solve in a language with don´t strong type, but another Smalltalks like Dolphin seems work very good in that.

Thanks for read my poor english :)
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Re: Pharo 1.4

Damien Cassou
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 9:41 PM, nullPointer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don´t understand the behavior of any completion mechanism than works on
> Pharo/Squeak. When I type a literal, for example "1000" and later type "fac"
> appears always a great number of messages from system than nothing have
> relation with the object where we doing message call. I´ll wait for example
> #factorial message and other fews. I suppose that don´t easy solve in a
> language with don´t strong type, but another Smalltalks like Dolphin seems
> work very good in that.
>
> Thanks for read my poor english :)

There are existing tools to infer types but they need to be integrated.

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them
popular by not having them." James Iry

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Re: Pharo 1.4

Sean P. DeNigris
Administrator
Damien Cassou wrote
Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?

Sean
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Pharo 1.4

Frank Shearar-3
On 28 August 2011 21:18, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Damien Cassou wrote:
>>
>>
>
> Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?

I know of Roel Wuyts' RoelTyper
(http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/smalltalk/roeltyper/) and Lex
Spoon's Chuck (http://www.lexspoon.org/ti/). Matt Might has also
written about k-CFA (Control Flow Analysis) for inferring types in a
dynamic language (Scheme, in particular) -
http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ -
which we might be able to apply to Smalltalk.

frank

> Sean
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-tp3759684p3774973.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

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Re: Pharo 1.4

Francisco Ortiz Peñaloza
In fact Pharo 1.3 uses OCompletion built on top of ECompletion[1] and RoelTyper. 

I just looked at 1.4 and it looks simpler but OCompletion works great for me! I think is a great tool but it's not well integrated (cause there's been a lot of changes, new editors and yada yada yada)

IMHO it does't hurt to have them (you can disable it and use ECompletion instead or you can even disable both tools) and makes Pharo more friendly to newcomers from others IDEs. 

Cheers,
Francisco

[1] http://uncomplex.net/ecompletion/



On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28 August 2011 21:18, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Damien Cassou wrote:
>>
>>
>
> Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?

I know of Roel Wuyts' RoelTyper
(http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/smalltalk/roeltyper/) and Lex
Spoon's Chuck (http://www.lexspoon.org/ti/). Matt Might has also
written about k-CFA (Control Flow Analysis) for inferring types in a
dynamic language (Scheme, in particular) -
http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ -
which we might be able to apply to Smalltalk.

frank

> Sean
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-tp3759684p3774973.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>


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Re: Pharo 1.4

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Exactly.  I am the first to disable both, but there is nothing personal in it.  Well, it *IS* personal, but simply my personal preference to type vs. having lists block my view of the code.  I think it is great that the tools exist and provide good service to those who want them.



________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Francisco Ortiz Peñaloza [[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:57 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4

In fact Pharo 1.3 uses OCompletion built on top of ECompletion[1] and RoelTyper.

I just looked at 1.4 and it looks simpler but OCompletion works great for me! I think is a great tool but it's not well integrated (cause there's been a lot of changes, new editors and yada yada yada)

IMHO it does't hurt to have them (you can disable it and use ECompletion instead or you can even disable both tools) and makes Pharo more friendly to newcomers from others IDEs.

Cheers,
Francisco

[1] http://uncomplex.net/ecompletion/



On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
On 28 August 2011 21:18, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Damien Cassou wrote:
>>
>>
>
> Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?

I know of Roel Wuyts' RoelTyper
(http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/smalltalk/roeltyper/) and Lex
Spoon's Chuck (http://www.lexspoon.org/ti/). Matt Might has also
written about k-CFA (Control Flow Analysis) for inferring types in a
dynamic language (Scheme, in particular) -
http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ -
which we might be able to apply to Smalltalk.

frank

> Sean
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-tp3759684p3774973.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>



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Re: Pharo 1.4

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
Roel typer does inference using method bodies and I do not think that it takes the receiver.
Now the problem is that we could take the expression (here 100) and evaluate and get its class (and catch error in case you wrote jlkkj

Now what if the expression should not be evaluated twice.

So type inferencer

May be if we had a message:

        expr isLiteral we could guess a bit better.

So if someone want to experiment please do.

Stef

>>>
>> Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?
>
> I know of Roel Wuyts' RoelTyper
> (http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/smalltalk/roeltyper/) and Lex
> Spoon's Chuck (http://www.lexspoon.org/ti/).

forget it. It was nice but
        you need 80 mb or more of cache
        and I'm not sure the code is somewhere and
        working

> Matt Might has also
> written about k-CFA (Control Flow Analysis) for inferring types in a
> dynamic language (Scheme, in particular) -
> http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ -
> which we might be able to apply to Smalltalk.

well this is not something you do in 3 months.

>
> frank
>
>> Sean
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-tp3759684p3774973.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>


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Re: Pharo 1.4

Levente Uzonyi-2
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> Roel typer does inference using method bodies and I do not think that it takes the receiver.
> Now the problem is that we could take the expression (here 100) and evaluate and get its class (and catch error in case you wrote jlkkj
>
> Now what if the expression should not be evaluated twice.
>
> So type inferencer
>
> May be if we had a message:
>
> expr isLiteral we could guess a bit better.
>
> So if someone want to experiment please do.
ECompletion already does that. See ECContext >> #guessTypeOf:.


Levente

>
> Stef
>
>>>>
>>> Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?
>>
>> I know of Roel Wuyts' RoelTyper
>> (http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/smalltalk/roeltyper/) and Lex
>> Spoon's Chuck (http://www.lexspoon.org/ti/).
>
> forget it. It was nice but
> you need 80 mb or more of cache
> and I'm not sure the code is somewhere and
> working
>
>> Matt Might has also
>> written about k-CFA (Control Flow Analysis) for inferring types in a
>> dynamic language (Scheme, in particular) -
>> http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ -
>> which we might be able to apply to Smalltalk.
>
> well this is not something you do in 3 months.
>
>>
>> frank
>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-tp3759684p3774973.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Pharo 1.4

abergel
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
RoelTyper is probably what should be interfaced with the automatic completion.
Other approaches are expensive.

Alexandre



On 28 Aug 2011, at 19:04, Frank Shearar wrote:

> On 28 August 2011 21:18, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Damien Cassou wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Cool! That would make a big difference. Where are they/what are they called?
>
> I know of Roel Wuyts' RoelTyper
> (http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/smalltalk/roeltyper/) and Lex
> Spoon's Chuck (http://www.lexspoon.org/ti/). Matt Might has also
> written about k-CFA (Control Flow Analysis) for inferring types in a
> dynamic language (Scheme, in particular) -
> http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ -
> which we might be able to apply to Smalltalk.
>
> frank
>
>> Sean
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-tp3759684p3774973.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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