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alistairgrant

Pharo 6 snap package

Hi Everyone,

I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.

The major advantages of using the snap package are:

- No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit system,
they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
- Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and run the
appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM still
needs more testing).

To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:

# Install Pharo
$ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
# If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
$ sudo pharo.config
# Download the latest Pharo 6 image
$ pharo.getimage
# Go...
$ pharo.ui Pharo.image
# or:
$ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3

To get a list of available commands:

$ snap info pharo

If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd, see
https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install

The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.

The installation flags are:

--candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development versions.
It progresses to candidate and then stable.
--classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
in which we want to be able to run any executable,
or load any library, it is installed with access to
the entire system (as the running user).

Why use snap packages?

- They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the 32 bit
architecture and associated dependencies.
- Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any problems with
incompatible library versions when upgrading.

Why not use snap packages?

- It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
- There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
discovered yet.
- Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).

Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you think
should be listed here.

If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which requires
sudo):

- All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG

The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap

Cheers,
Alistair

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

THANKS A LOT ALISTAIR.
I mean it :)

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.
>
> The major advantages of using the snap package are:
>
> - No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit system,
> they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
> - Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and run the
> appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM still
> needs more testing).
>
>
>
> To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:
>
> # Install Pharo
> $ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
> # If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
> $ sudo pharo.config
> # Download the latest Pharo 6 image
> $ pharo.getimage
> # Go...
> $ pharo.ui Pharo.image
> # or:
> $ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3
>
> To get a list of available commands:
>
> $ snap info pharo
>
>
> If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd, see
> https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install
>
>
> The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.
>
> The installation flags are:
>
> --candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development versions.
> It progresses to candidate and then stable.
> --classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
> reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
> in which we want to be able to run any executable,
> or load any library, it is installed with access to
> the entire system (as the running user).
>
> Why use snap packages?
>
> - They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
> versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the 32 bit
> architecture and associated dependencies.
> - Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any problems with
> incompatible library versions when upgrading.
>
> Why not use snap packages?
>
> - It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
> - There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
> discovered yet.
> - Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
> cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).
>
> Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you think
> should be listed here.
>
> If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which requires
> sudo):
>
> - All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
> pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG
>
>
> The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap
>
>
> Cheers,
> Alistair
>

philippeback

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

I need to upgrade to 16.04 now :-)

Phil

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

THANKS A LOT ALISTAIR.
I mean it :)

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.
>
> The major advantages of using the snap package are:
>
> - No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit system,
> they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
> - Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and run the
> appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM still
> needs more testing).
>
>
>
> To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:
>
> # Install Pharo
> $ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
> # If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
> $ sudo pharo.config
> # Download the latest Pharo 6 image
> $ pharo.getimage
> # Go...
> $ pharo.ui Pharo.image
> # or:
> $ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3
>
> To get a list of available commands:
>
> $ snap info pharo
>
>
> If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd, see
> https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install
>
>
> The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.
>
> The installation flags are:
>
> --candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development versions.
> It progresses to candidate and then stable.
> --classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
> reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
> in which we want to be able to run any executable,
> or load any library, it is installed with access to
> the entire system (as the running user).
>
> Why use snap packages?
>
> - They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
> versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the 32 bit
> architecture and associated dependencies.
> - Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any problems with
> incompatible library versions when upgrading.
>
> Why not use snap packages?
>
> - It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
> - There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
> discovered yet.
> - Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
> cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).
>
> Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you think
> should be listed here.
>
> If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which requires
> sudo):
>
> - All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
> pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG
>
>
> The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap
>
>
> Cheers,
> Alistair
>

alistairgrant

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

In reply to this post by alistairgrant

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 08:58:31AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote:

I should have added if you want the 32 bit image:

$ pharo.getimage32

the rest remains the same

> # Go...
> $ pharo.ui Pharo.image
> # or:
> $ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3
>
> To get a list of available commands:
>
> $ snap info pharo
>
>
> If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd, see
> https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install
>
>
> The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.
>
> The installation flags are:
>
> --candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development versions.
> It progresses to candidate and then stable.
> --classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
> reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
> in which we want to be able to run any executable,
> or load any library, it is installed with access to
> the entire system (as the running user).
>
> Why use snap packages?
>
> - They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
> versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the 32 bit
> architecture and associated dependencies.
> - Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any problems with
> incompatible library versions when upgrading.
>
> Why not use snap packages?
>
> - It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
> - There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
> discovered yet.
> - Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
> cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).
>
> Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you think
> should be listed here.
>
> If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which requires
> sudo):
>
> - All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
> pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG
>
>
> The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap
>
>
> Cheers,
> Alistair

alistairgrant

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

In reply to this post by philippeback

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:25:15AM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> I need to upgrade to 16.04 now :-)

:-)

Don't forget you can install snapd on Ubuntu 14.04:

https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install-ubuntu

Cheers,
Alistair

> Phil
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> THANKS A LOT ALISTAIR.
> I mean it :)
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.
> >
> > The major advantages of using the snap package are:
> >
> > - No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit system,
> > they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
> > - Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and run the
> > appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM still
> > needs more testing).
> >
> >
> >
> > To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:
> >
> > # Install Pharo
> > $ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
> > # If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
> > $ sudo pharo.config
> > # Download the latest Pharo 6 image
> > $ pharo.getimage
> > # Go...
> > $ pharo.ui Pharo.image
> > # or:
> > $ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3
> >
> > To get a list of available commands:
> >
> > $ snap info pharo
> >
> >
> > If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd, see
> > https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install
> >
> >
> > The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.
> >
> > The installation flags are:
> >
> > --candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development versions.
> > It progresses to candidate and then stable.
> > --classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
> > reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
> > in which we want to be able to run any executable,
> > or load any library, it is installed with access to
> > the entire system (as the running user).
> >
> > Why use snap packages?
> >
> > - They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
> > versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the 32 bit
> > architecture and associated dependencies.
> > - Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any problems with
> > incompatible library versions when upgrading.
> >
> > Why not use snap packages?
> >
> > - It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
> > - There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
> > discovered yet.
> > - Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
> > cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).
> >
> > Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you think
> > should be listed here.
> >
> > If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which requires
> > sudo):
> >
> > - All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
> > pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG
> >
> >
> > The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alistair

philippeback

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:25:15AM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> I need to upgrade to 16.04 now :-)

:-)

Don't forget you can install snapd on Ubuntu 14.04:

https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install-ubuntu

Ah, wasn't aware of that. Thx Alistair!

Phil

Cheers,
Alistair

> Phil
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> THANKS A LOT ALISTAIR.
> I mean it :)
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.
> >
> > The major advantages of using the snap package are:
> >
> > - No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit system,
> > they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
> > - Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and run the
> > appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM still
> > needs more testing).
> >
> >
> >
> > To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:
> >
> > # Install Pharo
> > $ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
> > # If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
> > $ sudo pharo.config
> > # Download the latest Pharo 6 image
> > $ pharo.getimage
> > # Go...
> > $ pharo.ui Pharo.image
> > # or:
> > $ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3
> >
> > To get a list of available commands:
> >
> > $ snap info pharo
> >
> >
> > If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd, see
> > https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install
> >
> >
> > The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.
> >
> > The installation flags are:
> >
> > --candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development versions.
> > It progresses to candidate and then stable.
> > --classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
> > reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
> > in which we want to be able to run any executable,
> > or load any library, it is installed with access to
> > the entire system (as the running user).
> >
> > Why use snap packages?
> >
> > - They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
> > versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the 32 bit
> > architecture and associated dependencies.
> > - Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any problems with
> > incompatible library versions when upgrading.
> >
> > Why not use snap packages?
> >
> > - It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
> > - There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
> > discovered yet.
> > - Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
> > cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).
> >
> > Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you think
> > should be listed here.
> >
> > If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which requires
> > sudo):
> >
> > - All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
> > pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG
> >
> >
> > The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alistair

Hannes Hirzel

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

Hello

Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)

--Hannes

On 6/13/17, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:25:15AM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
>> > I need to upgrade to 16.04 now :-)
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Don't forget you can install snapd on Ubuntu 14.04:
>>
>> https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install-ubuntu
>>
>>
> Ah, wasn't aware of that. Thx Alistair!
>
> Phil
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> Alistair
>>
>>
>> > Phil
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > THANKS A LOT ALISTAIR.
>> > I mean it :)
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Alistair Grant <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hi Everyone,
>> > >
>> > > I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.
>> > >
>> > > The major advantages of using the snap package are:
>> > >
>> > > - No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit
>> system,
>> > > they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
>> > > - Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and
>> run the
>> > > appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM
>> > still
>> > > needs more testing).
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:
>> > >
>> > > # Install Pharo
>> > > $ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
>> > > # If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
>> > > $ sudo pharo.config
>> > > # Download the latest Pharo 6 image
>> > > $ pharo.getimage
>> > > # Go...
>> > > $ pharo.ui Pharo.image
>> > > # or:
>> > > $ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3
>> > >
>> > > To get a list of available commands:
>> > >
>> > > $ snap info pharo
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd,
>> see
>> > > https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.
>> > >
>> > > The installation flags are:
>> > >
>> > > --candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development
>> versions.
>> > > It progresses to candidate and then stable.
>> > > --classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
>> > > reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
>> > > in which we want to be able to run any executable,
>> > > or load any library, it is installed with access to
>> > > the entire system (as the running user).
>> > >
>> > > Why use snap packages?
>> > >
>> > > - They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
>> > > versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the
>> 32 bit
>> > > architecture and associated dependencies.
>> > > - Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any
>> problems with
>> > > incompatible library versions when upgrading.
>> > >
>> > > Why not use snap packages?
>> > >
>> > > - It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
>> > > - There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
>> > > discovered yet.
>> > > - Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
>> > > cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).
>> > >
>> > > Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you
>> think
>> > > should be listed here.
>> > >
>> > > If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which
>> requires
>> > > sudo):
>> > >
>> > > - All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
>> > > pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Alistair
>>
>>
>>
>

EstebanLM

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

Hi,

Guille made this one time ago:

https://github.com/guillep/pharo-snapcraft

cheers,

Esteban

On 22 Aug 2018, at 17:19, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello

Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)

--Hannes

On 6/13/17, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]>
wrote:

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:25:15AM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
I need to upgrade to 16.04 now :-)

:-)

Don't forget you can install snapd on Ubuntu 14.04:

https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install-ubuntu

Ah, wasn't aware of that. Thx Alistair!

Phil

Cheers,
Alistair

Phil

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse <
[hidden email]>
wrote:

   THANKS A LOT ALISTAIR.
   I mean it :)

   On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Alistair Grant <
[hidden email]>
   wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I've updated the Pharo 6 snap package for Ubuntu.

The major advantages of using the snap package are:

- No need to install all the 32 bit dependencies on a 64 bit
system,
they're all contained and isolated within the snap package.
- Automagically distinguish between 32 bit and 64 bit images and
run the
appropriate VM (as with the ZeroConf package, the 64 bit VM
still
needs more testing).

To get Pharo up and running on Ubuntu 16.04 or later:

# Install Pharo
$ sudo snap install --candidate pharo --classic
# If your system isn't configured for threaded heartbeat:
$ sudo pharo.config
# Download the latest Pharo 6 image
$ pharo.getimage
# Go...
$ pharo.ui Pharo.image
# or:
$ pharo Pharo.image eval 4+3

To get a list of available commands:

$ snap info pharo

If you're on Debian or Ubuntu 14.04 you'll need to install snapd,
see
https://snapcraft.io/docs/core/install

The VM is the threaded heartbeat, dated 201705310241.

The installation flags are:

--candidate - The edge and beta channels are for development
versions.
It progresses to candidate and then stable.
--classic - Snap packages are normally sandboxed for security
reasons. Since Pharo is a development environment
in which we want to be able to run any executable,
or load any library, it is installed with access to
the entire system (as the running user).

Why use snap packages?

- They include all dependencies. In particular, for the 32 bit
versions, this means that it isn't necessary to install all the
32 bit
architecture and associated dependencies.
- Including dependencies means that there shouldn't be any
problems with
incompatible library versions when upgrading.

Why not use snap packages?

- It's a relatively new technology, with a number of rough edges.
- There may still be issues with its sandboxing that I haven't
discovered yet.
- Because the package uses classic confinement, it isn't
cross-distribution in practice (unfortunately).

Please let me know of any other advantages or disadvantages you
think
should be listed here.

If you don't trust me to configure your system correctly (which
requires
sudo):

- All the scripts that make up the sub-commands are visible, e.g.
pharo.config can be viewed at /snap/pharo/current/usr/bin/CONFIG

The packaging code is at: https://github.com/akgrant43/pharo-snap

Cheers,
Alistair

alistairgrant

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel

Hi Hannes,

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 17:20, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
> months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)

I haven't been thinking about it really, because:

- The big attraction for me was the ability to easily run 32 bit Pharo
on a 64 bit OS without installing all the dependencies. But now that
64 bit Pharo is stable that driver has largely gone.
- The sandboxing is quite limiting for a development environment, so
if you want to run commands on the localhost you end up doing
something like ssh'ing the command to localhost.
- The snap runtime environment is still quite immature - I've had to
deal with bugs in snapd, the gtk desktop interface, loading 32 bit
executables, etc.
- The snapcraft build environment is still evolving, so I have to keep
up with the changes.
- I was originally compiling the 32 and 64 bit VMs as part of the
build process, but that is problematic as the 32 and 64 bit libraries
tend to interfere with each other making the build process unstable.
- You can't run multiple versions of a snap on one system, e.g. we
can't have Pharo 6 and Pharo 7 installed simultaneously under the one
snap name (pharo). I tried to register Pharo7 so pharo could be the
GA version (6), but never got a response.

I was listening to an Ubuntu podcast just this week where one of the
hosts tried installing 4 packages via snaps and ended up going back to
debian packages for 3 of the packages due to problems, so it obviously
still isn't mature.

I realise that every software package has its own issues, I'm sure
someone from the snap community could find parallel issues with Pharo,
but it wasn't where I wanted to be spending all my time.

If someone wants to take it over, I'm more than happy to pass it on
(although it isn't building at the moment due to changes in
snapcraft).

If there is enough interest I'll try and update it to run Pharo 6.1.

If Guille is actively maintaining his package, maybe we should move to
that (I haven't looked at it).

Cheers,
Alistair

Hannes Hirzel

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

Hello Alistair

Thank you for the detailed answer. I understand that at the moment
going for a Pharo snap package does not seem to be useful.

In particular as a Pharo installation may reside in a directory with
everything included.
So different Pharo installations may reside in different directories.

I think where snap still might come is for solutions which require
more than a particular Pharo installation.

For example I could think of combining a particular Pharo version with
a particular Jupyter notebook installation into a snap which could
lead to a web based 'Dynabook' solution.

I am also looking forward to Guille's answer.

Regards
Hannes

On 8/23/18, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Hannes,
>
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 17:20, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
>> months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)
>
> I haven't been thinking about it really, because:
>
> - The big attraction for me was the ability to easily run 32 bit Pharo
> on a 64 bit OS without installing all the dependencies. But now that
> 64 bit Pharo is stable that driver has largely gone.
> - The sandboxing is quite limiting for a development environment, so
> if you want to run commands on the localhost you end up doing
> something like ssh'ing the command to localhost.
> - The snap runtime environment is still quite immature - I've had to
> deal with bugs in snapd, the gtk desktop interface, loading 32 bit
> executables, etc.
> - The snapcraft build environment is still evolving, so I have to keep
> up with the changes.
> - I was originally compiling the 32 and 64 bit VMs as part of the
> build process, but that is problematic as the 32 and 64 bit libraries
> tend to interfere with each other making the build process unstable.
> - You can't run multiple versions of a snap on one system, e.g. we
> can't have Pharo 6 and Pharo 7 installed simultaneously under the one
> snap name (pharo). I tried to register Pharo7 so pharo could be the
> GA version (6), but never got a response.
>
> I was listening to an Ubuntu podcast just this week where one of the
> hosts tried installing 4 packages via snaps and ended up going back to
> debian packages for 3 of the packages due to problems, so it obviously
> still isn't mature.
>
> I realise that every software package has its own issues, I'm sure
> someone from the snap community could find parallel issues with Pharo,
> but it wasn't where I wanted to be spending all my time.
>
> If someone wants to take it over, I'm more than happy to pass it on
> (although it isn't building at the moment due to changes in
> snapcraft).
>
> If there is enough interest I'll try and update it to run Pharo 6.1.
>
> If Guille is actively maintaining his package, maybe we should move to
> that (I haven't looked at it).
>
> Cheers,
> Alistair
>
>

alistairgrant

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

Hi Hannes,

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 at 06:36, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Alistair
>
> Thank you for the detailed answer. I understand that at the moment
> going for a Pharo snap package does not seem to be useful.
>
> In particular as a Pharo installation may reside in a directory with
> everything included.
> So different Pharo installations may reside in different directories.

Yep. Especially if using the in-development version of Pharo
(currently 7), I find it useful to pair images and VMs.

> I think where snap still might come is for solutions which require
> more than a particular Pharo installation.
>
> For example I could think of combining a particular Pharo version with
> a particular Jupyter notebook installation into a snap which could
> lead to a web based 'Dynabook' solution.

That was one of the things that attracted me to snaps originally, I
use sqlite in my daily environment, so included it in the Pharo snap.

> I am also looking forward to Guille's answer.

+1.

Cheers,
Alistair

> Regards
> Hannes
>
> On 8/23/18, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Hannes,
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 17:20, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
> >> months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)
> >
> > I haven't been thinking about it really, because:
> >
> > - The big attraction for me was the ability to easily run 32 bit Pharo
> > on a 64 bit OS without installing all the dependencies. But now that
> > 64 bit Pharo is stable that driver has largely gone.
> > - The sandboxing is quite limiting for a development environment, so
> > if you want to run commands on the localhost you end up doing
> > something like ssh'ing the command to localhost.
> > - The snap runtime environment is still quite immature - I've had to
> > deal with bugs in snapd, the gtk desktop interface, loading 32 bit
> > executables, etc.
> > - The snapcraft build environment is still evolving, so I have to keep
> > up with the changes.
> > - I was originally compiling the 32 and 64 bit VMs as part of the
> > build process, but that is problematic as the 32 and 64 bit libraries
> > tend to interfere with each other making the build process unstable.
> > - You can't run multiple versions of a snap on one system, e.g. we
> > can't have Pharo 6 and Pharo 7 installed simultaneously under the one
> > snap name (pharo). I tried to register Pharo7 so pharo could be the
> > GA version (6), but never got a response.
> >
> > I was listening to an Ubuntu podcast just this week where one of the
> > hosts tried installing 4 packages via snaps and ended up going back to
> > debian packages for 3 of the packages due to problems, so it obviously
> > still isn't mature.
> >
> > I realise that every software package has its own issues, I'm sure
> > someone from the snap community could find parallel issues with Pharo,
> > but it wasn't where I wanted to be spending all my time.
> >
> > If someone wants to take it over, I'm more than happy to pass it on
> > (although it isn't building at the moment due to changes in
> > snapcraft).
> >
> > If there is enough interest I'll try and update it to run Pharo 6.1.
> >
> > If Guille is actively maintaining his package, maybe we should move to
> > that (I haven't looked at it).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alistair

Guillermo Polito

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

Hi all,

Nope, I'm not maintaining my package. I was experimenting with it at some point (2 years ago?) and then saw somebody else started with a more complete solution so I've not continued working on it.

Personally, I've experienced the same sandboxing problems stated by Alistair, plus the fact that at that moment Snap was not working in *nixes other than Ubuntu made me put my energy somewhere else.

Three points more:

- for those that do not know exactly what we are talking about, snap is "new" a packaging tool used in ubuntu. I strongly believe that we could use some kind of tool like this for the VM, but not for image (which are mutable).

- it could maybe make more sense to package the pharo launcher? ;)

- rather than snaps, I'd put my 2cents on a solution like https://github.com/probonopd/appimagekit/. I've been following it for two years and it has a lot of movement and getting mature.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:18 PM Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Hannes,

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 at 06:36, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Alistair
>
> Thank you for the detailed answer. I understand that at the moment
> going for a Pharo snap package does not seem to be useful.
>
> In particular as a Pharo installation may reside in a directory with
> everything included.
> So different Pharo installations may reside in different directories.

Yep. Especially if using the in-development version of Pharo
(currently 7), I find it useful to pair images and VMs.

> I think where snap still might come is for solutions which require
> more than a particular Pharo installation.
>
> For example I could think of combining a particular Pharo version with
> a particular Jupyter notebook installation into a snap which could
> lead to a web based 'Dynabook' solution.

That was one of the things that attracted me to snaps originally, I
use sqlite in my daily environment, so included it in the Pharo snap.

> I am also looking forward to Guille's answer.

+1.

Cheers,
Alistair

> Regards
> Hannes
>
> On 8/23/18, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Hannes,
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 17:20, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
> >> months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)
> >
> > I haven't been thinking about it really, because:
> >
> > - The big attraction for me was the ability to easily run 32 bit Pharo
> > on a 64 bit OS without installing all the dependencies. But now that
> > 64 bit Pharo is stable that driver has largely gone.
> > - The sandboxing is quite limiting for a development environment, so
> > if you want to run commands on the localhost you end up doing
> > something like ssh'ing the command to localhost.
> > - The snap runtime environment is still quite immature - I've had to
> > deal with bugs in snapd, the gtk desktop interface, loading 32 bit
> > executables, etc.
> > - The snapcraft build environment is still evolving, so I have to keep
> > up with the changes.
> > - I was originally compiling the 32 and 64 bit VMs as part of the
> > build process, but that is problematic as the 32 and 64 bit libraries
> > tend to interfere with each other making the build process unstable.
> > - You can't run multiple versions of a snap on one system, e.g. we
> > can't have Pharo 6 and Pharo 7 installed simultaneously under the one
> > snap name (pharo). I tried to register Pharo7 so pharo could be the
> > GA version (6), but never got a response.
> >
> > I was listening to an Ubuntu podcast just this week where one of the
> > hosts tried installing 4 packages via snaps and ended up going back to
> > debian packages for 3 of the packages due to problems, so it obviously
> > still isn't mature.
> >
> > I realise that every software package has its own issues, I'm sure
> > someone from the snap community could find parallel issues with Pharo,
> > but it wasn't where I wanted to be spending all my time.
> >
> > If someone wants to take it over, I'm more than happy to pass it on
> > (although it isn't building at the moment due to changes in
> > snapcraft).
> >
> > If there is enough interest I'll try and update it to run Pharo 6.1.
> >
> > If Guille is actively maintaining his package, maybe we should move to
> > that (I haven't looked at it).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alistair

Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr

Web: http://guillep.github.io

Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2

Re: Pharo 6 snap package

Hi,

Another project that have save us from installation pains on several heterogeneous environments while giving workshops (including machines with several Linux flavors and Mac OS X, but not Windows) is Nix[1]. There is even a package for Pharo[2].

[1] https://nixos.org/nix/
[2] https://nixos.org/releases/tmp/release-nixos-unstable-small/nixos-18.09pre134110.a7af5d4f88f/unpack/nixos-18.09pre134110.a7af5d4f88f/pkgs/development/pharo/vm/vms.nix

Cheers,

Offray

On 9/7/18 10:07 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:

Hi all,

Nope, I'm not maintaining my package. I was experimenting with it at some point (2 years ago?) and then saw somebody else started with a more complete solution so I've not continued working on it.

Personally, I've experienced the same sandboxing problems stated by Alistair, plus the fact that at that moment Snap was not working in *nixes other than Ubuntu made me put my energy somewhere else.

Three points more:

- for those that do not know exactly what we are talking about, snap is "new" a packaging tool used in ubuntu. I strongly believe that we could use some kind of tool like this for the VM, but not for image (which are mutable).

- it could maybe make more sense to package the pharo launcher? ;)

- rather than snaps, I'd put my 2cents on a solution like https://github.com/probonopd/appimagekit/. I've been following it for two years and it has a lot of movement and getting mature.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:18 PM Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Hannes,

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 at 06:36, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Alistair
>
> Thank you for the detailed answer. I understand that at the moment
> going for a Pharo snap package does not seem to be useful.
>
> In particular as a Pharo installation may reside in a directory with
> everything included.
> So different Pharo installations may reside in different directories.

Yep. Especially if using the in-development version of Pharo
(currently 7), I find it useful to pair images and VMs.

> I think where snap still might come is for solutions which require
> more than a particular Pharo installation.
>
> For example I could think of combining a particular Pharo version with
> a particular Jupyter notebook installation into a snap which could
> lead to a web based 'Dynabook' solution.

That was one of the things that attracted me to snaps originally, I
use sqlite in my daily environment, so included it in the Pharo snap.

> I am also looking forward to Guille's answer.

+1.

Cheers,
Alistair

> Regards
> Hannes
>
> On 8/23/18, Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Hannes,
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 17:20, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> Are there plans to do a Pharo 6.1 snap package in the upcoming
> >> months? (Ubuntu 18.04.1)
> >
> > I haven't been thinking about it really, because:
> >
> > - The big attraction for me was the ability to easily run 32 bit Pharo
> > on a 64 bit OS without installing all the dependencies. But now that
> > 64 bit Pharo is stable that driver has largely gone.
> > - The sandboxing is quite limiting for a development environment, so
> > if you want to run commands on the localhost you end up doing
> > something like ssh'ing the command to localhost.
> > - The snap runtime environment is still quite immature - I've had to
> > deal with bugs in snapd, the gtk desktop interface, loading 32 bit
> > executables, etc.
> > - The snapcraft build environment is still evolving, so I have to keep
> > up with the changes.
> > - I was originally compiling the 32 and 64 bit VMs as part of the
> > build process, but that is problematic as the 32 and 64 bit libraries
> > tend to interfere with each other making the build process unstable.
> > - You can't run multiple versions of a snap on one system, e.g. we
> > can't have Pharo 6 and Pharo 7 installed simultaneously under the one
> > snap name (pharo). I tried to register Pharo7 so pharo could be the
> > GA version (6), but never got a response.
> >
> > I was listening to an Ubuntu podcast just this week where one of the
> > hosts tried installing 4 packages via snaps and ended up going back to
> > debian packages for 3 of the packages due to problems, so it obviously
> > still isn't mature.
> >
> > I realise that every software package has its own issues, I'm sure
> > someone from the snap community could find parallel issues with Pharo,
> > but it wasn't where I wanted to be spending all my time.
> >
> > If someone wants to take it over, I'm more than happy to pass it on
> > (although it isn't building at the moment due to changes in
> > snapcraft).
> >
> > If there is enough interest I'll try and update it to run Pharo 6.1.
> >
> > If Guille is actively maintaining his package, maybe we should move to
> > that (I haven't looked at it).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alistair

--

Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr

Web: http://guillep.github.io

Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13