Pharo IDE in Amber?

Hi All, 

I am cross posting this to the Amber and Pharo-dev lists as the both seem equally relevant, I hope that's ok. 

I’d like to discuss what the options would be to offer Pharo’s great IDE support in Amber. Helios and the classic IDE are great and a huge leap forward for in-browser live development, but Pharo is evolving rapidly. Also, having a full window system allows other workflows like inspecting classes and mocking something up in the Playground at the same time. 

Is there a way to make Amber and the Pharo developer tools be source code compatible, so that we could simply have the IDE open in a pop-up (like Helos), but have the Pharo desktop there? 

It would be very nice if this could be a once-and-for-all integration so that Amber would just use the current Pharo’s Desktop. 

I realize that there must be some challenges in that Amber does not have the same data types available (ie no Integer class, only Number, fewer collection types), but perhaps they can be introduced in Amber. There must be issues with concurrency models & callbacks that work differently in Pharo and the browser as well. 

If this can be overcome, I think the options would be to either: 

a) implement a Morphic raster rendering backend based on HTML5 Canvas, or: 

2) create DOM & CSS based Morphic widgets, like the Lively Kernel does. 

What do you think? 

best, 
Siemen

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Hi Dave,

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Dave Mason <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that PharoJS ( http://car.mines-douai.fr/pharojs/ is the current web page) is the closest thing to what you want.

Wow, this looks really promising - I was completely unaware of this project! I'll look into it in depth.

 

I'm one of the principals of PharoJS, so let me know if there are things you wish it could do, and we'll try to get there!

Thanks - that is highly appreciated. 

best,

Siemen

 

../Dave

../Dave

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All, 

I am cross posting this to the Amber and Pharo-dev lists as the both seem equally relevant, I hope that's ok. 

I’d like to discuss what the options would be to offer Pharo’s great IDE support in Amber. Helios and the classic IDE are great and a huge leap forward for in-browser live development, but Pharo is evolving rapidly. Also, having a full window system allows other workflows like inspecting classes and mocking something up in the Playground at the same time. 

Is there a way to make Amber and the Pharo developer tools be source code compatible, so that we could simply have the IDE open in a pop-up (like Helos), but have the Pharo desktop there? 

It would be very nice if this could be a once-and-for-all integration so that Amber would just use the current Pharo’s Desktop. 

I realize that there must be some challenges in that Amber does not have the same data types available (ie no Integer class, only Number, fewer collection types), but perhaps they can be introduced in Amber. There must be issues with concurrency models & callbacks that work differently in Pharo and the browser as well. 

If this can be overcome, I think the options would be to either: 

a) implement a Morphic raster rendering backend based on HTML5 Canvas, or: 

2) create DOM & CSS based Morphic widgets, like the Lively Kernel does. 

What do you think? 

best, 
Siemen

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Hi Dave,

I'm having some difficulties getting started with PharoJS. I'm using Pharo 4.0 (5.0 does not work) and following the instructions at http://car.mines-douai.fr/pharojs/#install. 

First, the code

workspace := JbWorkspaceForWeb open.


does not work, the class is now renamed to PjWorkspaceForWeb - but it opens fine. Then, the browser opens nicely and says 'Open' in the event log, but any evaluation in the JS playground hangs Pharo. I don't see any errors in the browser console and the site can be reloaded.

Do you have any hints?

Is this the right channel to discuss this issue, or is there a better place?

thanks,

Siemen

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Dave,

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Dave Mason <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that PharoJS ( http://car.mines-douai.fr/pharojs/ is the current web page) is the closest thing to what you want.

Wow, this looks really promising - I was completely unaware of this project! I'll look into it in depth.

 

I'm one of the principals of PharoJS, so let me know if there are things you wish it could do, and we'll try to get there!

Thanks - that is highly appreciated. 

best,

Siemen

 

../Dave

../Dave

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All, 

I am cross posting this to the Amber and Pharo-dev lists as the both seem equally relevant, I hope that's ok. 

I’d like to discuss what the options would be to offer Pharo’s great IDE support in Amber. Helios and the classic IDE are great and a huge leap forward for in-browser live development, but Pharo is evolving rapidly. Also, having a full window system allows other workflows like inspecting classes and mocking something up in the Playground at the same time. 

Is there a way to make Amber and the Pharo developer tools be source code compatible, so that we could simply have the IDE open in a pop-up (like Helos), but have the Pharo desktop there? 

It would be very nice if this could be a once-and-for-all integration so that Amber would just use the current Pharo’s Desktop. 

I realize that there must be some challenges in that Amber does not have the same data types available (ie no Integer class, only Number, fewer collection types), but perhaps they can be introduced in Amber. There must be issues with concurrency models & callbacks that work differently in Pharo and the browser as well. 

If this can be overcome, I think the options would be to either: 

a) implement a Morphic raster rendering backend based on HTML5 Canvas, or: 

2) create DOM & CSS based Morphic widgets, like the Lively Kernel does. 

What do you think? 

best, 
Siemen

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Apologies for the documentation being out of date.

We're in the throes of what I hope will be the last code-breaking reorganization of PharoJS.

Rather than cluttering up the Amber list, I have invited you to our Slack board, and I'll happily invite anyone else interested.

We should have a new website, documentation,  etc. available shortly.

../Dave

../Dave

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Dave,

I'm having some difficulties getting started with PharoJS. I'm using Pharo 4.0 (5.0 does not work) and following the instructions at http://car.mines-douai.fr/pharojs/#install. 

First, the code

workspace := JbWorkspaceForWeb open.


does not work, the class is now renamed to PjWorkspaceForWeb - but it opens fine. Then, the browser opens nicely and says 'Open' in the event log, but any evaluation in the JS playground hangs Pharo. I don't see any errors in the browser console and the site can be reloaded.

Do you have any hints?

Is this the right channel to discuss this issue, or is there a better place?

thanks,

Siemen

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Dave,

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Dave Mason <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that PharoJS ( http://car.mines-douai.fr/pharojs/ is the current web page) is the closest thing to what you want.

Wow, this looks really promising - I was completely unaware of this project! I'll look into it in depth.

 

I'm one of the principals of PharoJS, so let me know if there are things you wish it could do, and we'll try to get there!

Thanks - that is highly appreciated. 

best,

Siemen

 

../Dave

../Dave

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All, 

I am cross posting this to the Amber and Pharo-dev lists as the both seem equally relevant, I hope that's ok. 

I’d like to discuss what the options would be to offer Pharo’s great IDE support in Amber. Helios and the classic IDE are great and a huge leap forward for in-browser live development, but Pharo is evolving rapidly. Also, having a full window system allows other workflows like inspecting classes and mocking something up in the Playground at the same time. 

Is there a way to make Amber and the Pharo developer tools be source code compatible, so that we could simply have the IDE open in a pop-up (like Helos), but have the Pharo desktop there? 

It would be very nice if this could be a once-and-for-all integration so that Amber would just use the current Pharo’s Desktop. 

I realize that there must be some challenges in that Amber does not have the same data types available (ie no Integer class, only Number, fewer collection types), but perhaps they can be introduced in Amber. There must be issues with concurrency models & callbacks that work differently in Pharo and the browser as well. 

If this can be overcome, I think the options would be to either: 

a) implement a Morphic raster rendering backend based on HTML5 Canvas, or: 

2) create DOM & CSS based Morphic widgets, like the Lively Kernel does. 

What do you think? 

best, 
Siemen

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