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Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

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horrido

Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

FYI, reader comments to my interview with Stef:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7a30vx/pharo_reinventing_smalltalk/

If you can respond, that would be great.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

kilon.alios

Re: Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

Well I rather not reply because I am a huge hater of multi window GUIs . Thank god Pharo is not.

Seriously how on earth someone can find convenient multiple windows is beyond my understanding . It was a terrible idea in 90s , it’s still a terrible idea.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:05, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

FYI, reader comments to my interview with Stef:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7a30vx/pharo_reinventing_smalltalk/

If you can respond, that would be great.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

henry

Re: Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

I am only familiar with Eclipse, not other Java development environments. In comparison, what is lacking in the land of Java, which is so powerful in Pharo/Squeak/Smalltalk is the ability to inspect the object resulting from some highlighted code. As a developer, Smalltalk wins on inspectability.

- HH

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 17:47, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well I rather not reply because I am a huge hater of multi window GUIs . Thank god Pharo is not.

Seriously how on earth someone can find convenient multiple windows is beyond my understanding . It was a terrible idea in 90s , it’s still a terrible idea.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:05, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

FYI, reader comments to my interview with Stef:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7a30vx/pharo_reinventing_smalltalk/

If you can respond, that would be great.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

kilon.alios

Re: Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

Should pretty standard even for Java using a debugger

I mean I have done this with Visual Studio and its debugger with C++. It even allows you to inspect the machine code or see the memory in raw bits formats. So I find it hard to believe that Eclipse cannot do that with Java.

There is even a feature which is called watching a variable that pops the debugger only when a specific variable changes value. The functionality is there , the terminology is different.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 01:12, henry <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am only familiar with Eclipse, not other Java development environments. In comparison, what is lacking in the land of Java, which is so powerful in Pharo/Squeak/Smalltalk is the ability to inspect the object resulting from some highlighted code. As a developer, Smalltalk wins on inspectability.

- HH

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 17:47, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well I rather not reply because I am a huge hater of multi window GUIs . Thank god Pharo is not.

Seriously how on earth someone can find convenient multiple windows is beyond my understanding . It was a terrible idea in 90s , it’s still a terrible idea.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:05, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

FYI, reader comments to my interview with Stef:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7a30vx/pharo_reinventing_smalltalk/

If you can respond, that would be great.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

henry

Re: Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

Watching is one thing you can do to see the result of an expression. The issue is that this has to be in scope within the selected stackframe or something. I can never watch once that scope has gone. As a result, I have no idea if it is possible, but I cannot just open an inspector that sticks around as I process stacks in the debugger. That level of the environment being alive is just missing from the Java development environments. One reason is Smalltalk is running the image objects all the time and Java does not have an image-based environment. You restart the environment each time you rerun a java test case. It's DOA.

- HH

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk
Local Time: November 1, 2017 7:27 PM
UTC Time: November 1, 2017 11:27 PM
From: [hidden email]
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>, henry <[hidden email]>

Should pretty standard even for Java using a debugger

I mean I have done this with Visual Studio and its debugger with C++. It even allows you to inspect the machine code or see the memory in raw bits formats. So I find it hard to believe that Eclipse cannot do that with Java.

There is even a feature which is called watching a variable that pops the debugger only when a specific variable changes value. The functionality is there , the terminology is different.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 01:12, henry <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am only familiar with Eclipse, not other Java development environments. In comparison, what is lacking in the land of Java, which is so powerful in Pharo/Squeak/Smalltalk is the ability to inspect the object resulting from some highlighted code. As a developer, Smalltalk wins on inspectability.

- HH

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 17:47, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Well I rather not reply because I am a huge hater of multi window GUIs . Thank god Pharo is not.

Seriously how on earth someone can find convenient multiple windows is beyond my understanding . It was a terrible idea in 90s , it’s still a terrible idea.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:05, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
FYI, reader comments to my interview with Stef:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7a30vx/pharo_reinventing_smalltalk/

If you can respond, that would be great.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

aglynn42

Re: Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

In reply to this post by kilon.alios

How many development environments use single document windows? Off the top of my head, Dolphin and … er, Dolphin. That the person thinks it’s supposed to be an end user application says it al, really.

I don’t hate SDI’s. they work ok for word processors.

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 5:48 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:05, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

aglynn42

Re: Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

In reply to this post by kilon.alios

There is a basic difference between debugging compiled code using debug symbols, debugging a live environment that’s represented as if it isn’t, and debugging a live environment that’s represented as if it is.

In general Java is represented the same way as C/C++, although Eclipse is somewhat better than other Java IDE’s when it comes to debugging, mainly because it tries to be somewhat like VisualAge for Java, which was written in Smalltalk.

XCode represents MacOS similarly to the way Eclipse represents Java. F-Script, on the other hand, allows you to debug MacOS / iOS in the same manner Smalltalk environments do.

But then, F-Script is Smalltalk by any other name.

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 7:28 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo: Reinventing Smalltalk

Should pretty standard even for Java using a debugger

There is even a feature which is called watching a variable that pops the debugger only when a specific variable changes value. The functionality is there , the terminology is different.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 01:12, henry <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am only familiar with Eclipse, not other Java development environments. In comparison, what is lacking in the land of Java, which is so powerful in Pharo/Squeak/Smalltalk is the ability to inspect the object resulting from some highlighted code. As a developer, Smalltalk wins on inspectability.

- HH

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 17:47, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Well I rather not reply because I am a huge hater of multi window GUIs . Thank god Pharo is not.

Seriously how on earth someone can find convenient multiple windows is beyond my understanding . It was a terrible idea in 90s , it’s still a terrible idea.
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 at 23:05, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote: