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Pharo beginner bugs ....

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Guido Stepken

Pharo beginner bugs ....

Beginners Bugs in Pharo 1.1 on Linux:

In System Browser i choose Tools-Base->Workspace->initization->initialize

and see code

os := (Smalltalk platformName)

hmmm.

I open Shout Workspace, type Smalltalk pl ... and i get 'platformFamily'
suggested. No 'platformName' offered by Shout completion mode.

And: I cannot choose from other offers in suggestion list by clicking
with mouse. Why?

Linux Problem?

Next example: In Shout Workspace i enter: TTSampleFontMorph new
openInWorld. <ALT-P>

I get an error and a ghostframe, that i cannot delete. And: Completion
mode when i enter TTSample ... does not work. Fuck!

What are you guys thinking of your work on Pharo, e.g. quality testing?

Did you never notice, that even the basics of completion mode in Shout
Browser are buggy?

Then i open in World Menu: Tools->Filebrowser i get Error:Invalid utf8
input detected

We need a perfectly running Pharo on Linux/Wine (Ubuntu 9.10). And no,
no MAC here anywhere in schools in germany.

Can you imagine, that a teacher and his pupils drive mad on such simple
bugs?

So i have to teach with SCRATCH or BYOB in class. No serious bugs, no
problems.

regards, Guido Stepken

Schwab,Wilhelm K

Re: Pharo beginner bugs ....

Guido,

I have at times opened files in binary mode to avoid encoding hassles. That said, I have noticed a BIG improvement with encoding in 1.1.1. I use Ubuntu 9.10 on my laptop and and (IIRC) 10.4 on my machine at home

Bill

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guido Stepken [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 11:15 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Pharo-project] Pharo beginner bugs ....

Beginners Bugs in Pharo 1.1 on Linux:

In System Browser i choose Tools-Base->Workspace->initization->initialize

and see code

os := (Smalltalk platformName)

hmmm.

I open Shout Workspace, type Smalltalk pl ... and i get 'platformFamily'
suggested. No 'platformName' offered by Shout completion mode.

And: I cannot choose from other offers in suggestion list by clicking
with mouse. Why?

Linux Problem?

Next example: In Shout Workspace i enter: TTSampleFontMorph new
openInWorld. <ALT-P>

I get an error and a ghostframe, that i cannot delete. And: Completion
mode when i enter TTSample ... does not work. Fuck!

What are you guys thinking of your work on Pharo, e.g. quality testing?

Did you never notice, that even the basics of completion mode in Shout
Browser are buggy?

Then i open in World Menu: Tools->Filebrowser i get Error:Invalid utf8
input detected

We need a perfectly running Pharo on Linux/Wine (Ubuntu 9.10). And no,
no MAC here anywhere in schools in germany.

Can you imagine, that a teacher and his pupils drive mad on such simple
bugs?

So i have to teach with SCRATCH or BYOB in class. No serious bugs, no
problems.

regards, Guido Stepken

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Pharo beginner bugs ....

In reply to this post by Guido Stepken

On Nov 18, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Guido Stepken wrote:

> Beginners Bugs in Pharo 1.1 on Linux:
>
> In System Browser i choose Tools-Base->Workspace->initization->initialize
>
> and see code
>
> os := (Smalltalk platformName)
>
> hmmm.
>
> I open Shout Workspace, type Smalltalk pl ... and i get 'platformFamily' suggested. No 'platformName' offered by Shout completion mode.

shout or oCompletion because oCompletion is based on the frequency of the last message you typed and it does not register all the
method of the services at first.

> And: I cannot choose from other offers in suggestion list by clicking with mouse. Why?

I do not know :) may be because nobody proposed code to do so.

> Linux Problem?
>
> Next example: In Shout Workspace i enter: TTSampleFontMorph new openInWorld. <ALT-P>

in 1.2 it is working on my machine and also in 1.1.1.dev10.09.2 on mac.
And I can delete it with the halos.
>
> I get an error and a ghostframe, that i cannot delete. And: Completion mode when i enter TTSample ... does not work. Fuck!

this is not polite :)

> What are you guys thinking of your work on Pharo, e.g. quality testing?

Nothing! we are dull in a lot of topics :)

> Did you never notice, that even the basics of completion mode in Shout Browser are buggy?
which version?
which image?

I suggest you to stay friendly if you want that we spend our time to reply nicely to you and I will not
be as violent as you and I fully understand your frustration.
There is nothing more violent that a huge silence.

Now pay me two engineer for 2 years and you will not recognize pharo :).

> Then i open in World Menu: Tools->Filebrowser i get Error:Invalid utf8 input detected

May be there is a problem on linux. because it works both on 1.2unstable and 1.1.1.dev10.09.2

> We need a perfectly running Pharo on Linux/Wine (Ubuntu 9.10).

Yes we want that

> And no, no MAC here anywhere in schools in germany.
>
> Can you imagine, that a teacher and his pupils drive mad on such simple bugs?

My wife is a teacher and I give lecture to computer illiterate too.

> So i have to teach with SCRATCH or BYOB in class. No serious bugs, no problems.

How much payed engineered was put on the table?
And how much complexity is shown to people with scratch?

> regards, Guido Stepken

I spent 10 min of ***my time*** to nicely reply to you so keep the situation so that I enjoy doing that.

Stef

Levente Uzonyi-2

Re: Pharo beginner bugs ....

In reply to this post by Guido Stepken

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Guido Stepken wrote:

> Beginners Bugs in Pharo 1.1 on Linux:
>
> In System Browser i choose Tools-Base->Workspace->initization->initialize
>
> and see code
>
> os := (Smalltalk platformName)
>
> hmmm.
>
> I open Shout Workspace, type Smalltalk pl ... and i get 'platformFamily'
> suggested. No 'platformName' offered by Shout completion mode.

By default OCompletion only knows about methods in Kernel* and Collection*
packages. SmalltalkImage is in System*. You can add extra packages by
evaluating [OCompletionTable initializeWithPackages]. You could even write
* as the filter, but it's very slow in Pharo 1.1 and OCompletion will lose
most entries, because it only caches 40 methods per two letter prefix. I'm
thinking about increasing that, because it's sometimes really annoying.

>
> And: I cannot choose from other offers in suggestion list by clicking with
> mouse. Why?

When you're typing you rarely use the mouse. The arrows are more
conventional. If you need that feature, then open an issue on the Pharo
tracker.

>
> Linux Problem?
>
> Next example: In Shout Workspace i enter: TTSampleFontMorph new openInWorld.
> <ALT-P>
>
> I get an error and a ghostframe, that i cannot delete. And: Completion mode

You could use the halos to delete it, but they are disabled in Pharo by
default.

> when i enter TTSample ... does not work. Fuck!

TTSamlpe* is in Morphic* (see above why that matters).

>
> What are you guys thinking of your work on Pharo, e.g. quality testing?
>
> Did you never notice, that even the basics of completion mode in Shout
> Browser are buggy?

Shout doesn't do code completion. If you're talking about the Alt-Q
(Cmd-Q) completion, then it's really bugged in Pharo.
If you think that you've found a bug in OCompletion, then open an issue in
the Pharo issue tracker.

>
> Then i open in World Menu: Tools->Filebrowser i get Error:Invalid utf8 input
> detected
>
> We need a perfectly running Pharo on Linux/Wine (Ubuntu 9.10). And no, no MAC
> here anywhere in schools in germany.
>
> Can you imagine, that a teacher and his pupils drive mad on such simple bugs?
>
> So i have to teach with SCRATCH or BYOB in class. No serious bugs, no
> problems.

Are those bad?

Levente

>
> regards, Guido Stepken
>
>

tfleig

Re: Pharo beginner bugs ....

I am pleased to see the explanation of OCompletion. I had noticed that it seemed to become smarter as I continued to work :).

I too wished at times to use the mouse to select a completion, but after realizing it never seemed to work, I adapted and I find myself using the keyboard now without really thinking about it.

That said, I think it is normal, especially for a newcomer, to expect that mouse selection should work wherever in the system a pop-up menu appears. This sort of feature (or lack of feature) does not make Pharo any easier for newcomers.

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Guido Stepken wrote:

Beginners Bugs in Pharo 1.1 on Linux:

In System Browser i choose Tools-Base->Workspace->initization->initialize

and see code

os := (Smalltalk platformName)

hmmm.

I open Shout Workspace, type Smalltalk pl ... and i get 'platformFamily' suggested. No 'platformName' offered by Shout completion mode.

By default OCompletion only knows about methods in Kernel* and Collection* packages. SmalltalkImage is in System*. You can add extra packages by evaluating [OCompletionTable initializeWithPackages]. You could even write * as the filter, but it's very slow in Pharo 1.1 and OCompletion will lose most entries, because it only caches 40 methods per two letter prefix. I'm thinking about increasing that, because it's sometimes really annoying.

And: I cannot choose from other offers in suggestion list by clicking with mouse. Why?

When you're typing you rarely use the mouse. The arrows are more conventional. If you need that feature, then open an issue on the Pharo tracker.

Linux Problem?

Next example: In Shout Workspace i enter: TTSampleFontMorph new openInWorld. <ALT-P>

I get an error and a ghostframe, that i cannot delete. And: Completion mode

You could use the halos to delete it, but they are disabled in Pharo by default.

when i enter TTSample ... does not work. Fuck!

TTSamlpe* is in Morphic* (see above why that matters).

What are you guys thinking of your work on Pharo, e.g. quality testing?

Did you never notice, that even the basics of completion mode in Shout Browser are buggy?

Shout doesn't do code completion. If you're talking about the Alt-Q (Cmd-Q) completion, then it's really bugged in Pharo.
If you think that you've found a bug in OCompletion, then open an issue in the Pharo issue tracker.

Then i open in World Menu: Tools->Filebrowser i get Error:Invalid utf8 input detected

We need a perfectly running Pharo on Linux/Wine (Ubuntu 9.10). And no, no MAC here anywhere in schools in germany.

Can you imagine, that a teacher and his pupils drive mad on such simple bugs?

So i have to teach with SCRATCH or BYOB in class. No serious bugs, no problems.

Are those bad?

Levente

regards, Guido Stepken