Pharo consultants

Am 01.06.2013 um 17:28 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 01.06.2013 um 08:10 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> I think that we are doing a poor job selling ourselves. I think that the quality of our community is in
>>> general excellent but we do not sell it. I think that we are not using well the association.
>>> I think that this is REALLY important for a larger adoption of Pharo that the world
>>> knows that we have excellent guys around that can consult.
>>>
>>> So what do you think?
>>> I would use the association in a much clearer way.
>>
>> I think you need to elaborate here. On this level of detail the only answer could be: good idea! I cannot see what you have on your mind when you like to use the association in a clearer way.
>
> I mean that we could use the association as a show room for talented person
> "selling" their expertise :)
>
>> I would like to have consultancy for consultants. I mean I read that sometimes that developers are just too shy to sell services with smalltalk or do not dare to introduce it to their IT. There should be an instance encouraging those people or be just an address to target questions to.
>
> I would like to show to the world that if they start business around Pharo they can find experts.

Agreed. I think that is important, too. I just like as well help people finding the right arguments (or myth counter arguments) to be able to implement smalltalk in their company themselves. It is the same as programming: You have to unlearn "some truths" first before you can argue a better way. It works for me and people I talk to. And I (and other people, too..I guess) are open to answer questions about this.

Norbert

Am 03.06.2013 um 09:47 schrieb [hidden email]:

I'd say creating visible success cases w/ real business value is what will drive usage forward.

Without that, well, that's yet another tech in the pile.

Maybe. But my experience shows that it is more effective than having developers think about marketing or "real business value" (whatever that might be). Sorry, but most of us don't have a glue about it. It is just high hopes (juggling with learned business acronyms) that are hard to achieve and it is the safest way that nothing will happen.

Anyway I'm just responding because you are weighing efforts. If there are more things that we can do I'm pretty sure we should do all of them. 

Norbert

Once business sees that using Pharo has a clear ROI, then, who cares about justifications.

BTW, interesting programming doesn't occurs in the IT departments where you have to justify everything but in business units where doing something that matters to the bottom line is what counts. (That's why business units do a lot of skunkworks projects in their area... and why we should focus there).

Phil

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

Am 01.06.2013 um 17:28 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 01.06.2013 um 08:10 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> I think that we are doing a poor job selling ourselves. I think that the quality of our community is in
>>> general excellent but we do not sell it. I think that we are not using well the association.
>>> I think that this is REALLY important for a larger adoption of Pharo that the world
>>> knows that we have excellent guys around that can consult.
>>>
>>> So what do you think?
>>> I would use the association in a much clearer way.
>>
>> I think you need to elaborate here. On this level of detail the only answer could be: good idea! I cannot see what you have on your mind when you like to use the association in a clearer way.
>
> I mean that we could use the association as a show room for talented person
> "selling" their expertise :)
>
>> I would like to have consultancy for consultants. I mean I read that sometimes that developers are just too shy to sell services with smalltalk or do not dare to introduce it to their IT. There should be an instance encouraging those people or be just an address to target questions to.
>
> I would like to show to the world that if they start business around Pharo they can find experts.

Agreed. I think that is important, too. I just like as well help people finding the right arguments (or myth counter arguments) to be able to implement smalltalk in their company themselves. It is the same as programming: You have to unlearn "some truths" first before you can argue a better way. It works for me and people I talk to. And I (and other people, too..I guess) are open to answer questions about this.

Norbert

Get the bosses to trust you and sign the check. The you use the tech you want.

Now, that's how I do work, and it pays off.

Less hassles, more money, more solutions that do work.

That's what a consultant does. A contractor is another matter of course.

I doubt anyone in my business club cares an iota about the tech details.

Real business value is easy: I spend 100K, I spare 20 million. Risk? Low. Decision: No brainer: go.

When you know businesses spend 50K on toilet paper and office supplies a year, you can target your pricing a bit higher. I am always surprised that IT guys are playing that silly race to the bottom and behave as commodity .

It's the mindset. And Pharo can be a powerful weapon in that game.

Phil

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

Am 03.06.2013 um 09:47 schrieb [hidden email]:

I'd say creating visible success cases w/ real business value is what will drive usage forward.

Without that, well, that's yet another tech in the pile.

Maybe. But my experience shows that it is more effective than having developers think about marketing or "real business value" (whatever that might be). Sorry, but most of us don't have a glue about it. It is just high hopes (juggling with learned business acronyms) that are hard to achieve and it is the safest way that nothing will happen.

Anyway I'm just responding because you are weighing efforts. If there are more things that we can do I'm pretty sure we should do all of them. 

Norbert

Once business sees that using Pharo has a clear ROI, then, who cares about justifications.

BTW, interesting programming doesn't occurs in the IT departments where you have to justify everything but in business units where doing something that matters to the bottom line is what counts. (That's why business units do a lot of skunkworks projects in their area... and why we should focus there).

Phil

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

Am 01.06.2013 um 17:28 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 01.06.2013 um 08:10 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> I think that we are doing a poor job selling ourselves. I think that the quality of our community is in
>>> general excellent but we do not sell it. I think that we are not using well the association.
>>> I think that this is REALLY important for a larger adoption of Pharo that the world
>>> knows that we have excellent guys around that can consult.
>>>
>>> So what do you think?
>>> I would use the association in a much clearer way.
>>
>> I think you need to elaborate here. On this level of detail the only answer could be: good idea! I cannot see what you have on your mind when you like to use the association in a clearer way.
>
> I mean that we could use the association as a show room for talented person
> "selling" their expertise :)
>
>> I would like to have consultancy for consultants. I mean I read that sometimes that developers are just too shy to sell services with smalltalk or do not dare to introduce it to their IT. There should be an instance encouraging those people or be just an address to target questions to.
>
> I would like to show to the world that if they start business around Pharo they can find experts.

Agreed. I think that is important, too. I just like as well help people finding the right arguments (or myth counter arguments) to be able to implement smalltalk in their company themselves. It is the same as programming: You have to unlearn "some truths" first before you can argue a better way. It works for me and people I talk to. And I (and other people, too..I guess) are open to answer questions about this.

Norbert