[Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

Guys,

I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me

$ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo
./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo)
        linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xffffe000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000)
        libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000)

This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs.

Is there a way around this ?

Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ?

Thx,

Sven

On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me

yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA:
https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable

which properly deals with all the different combinations of vrsions.

As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that.
So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs.

On 23 May 2013, at 18:25, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can I do that safely on 8.04 ? Will it work ?
I would rather install locally, installing dependencies if needed.

OK, but what should I do then ?
It is no option to upgrade the machine..

BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-)

It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ?
If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions.

Sven

PS: I do understand that it is hard to support many versions.

On 2013-05-23, at 18:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

humm looks like there is no build for 8.04 out there.
You can try, apt get will inform you what it install before ;) humm damn!


> It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ?
> If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions.

I think the only reasonable approach is what Damien did.
We cannot guess all combinations of libraries and libc's that are out there.

Maybe you could try an older VM?
Otherwise we could try to build an older linux VM on our CI infrastructure just for you :)
No, seriously, we should see if we manage to distribute an older version somehow :/

On 23 May 2013, at 18:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ?
> If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions.

Well, I built the image on a newer machine with a pharo-vm, and deployed using an older CogVM that was still installed:

$ ./bin/CogVM -version
3.9-7 #1 Wed Sep 26 20:32:26 CEST 2012 gcc 4.1.2
CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.164 uuid: d77dee73-00f5-4d00-847b-00646b08329d Sep 26 2012
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.164 uuid: d77dee73-00f5-4d00-847b-00646b08329d Sep 26 2012
https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: bfc9fe2c4abcd2972c8bd9eac1c77f9baaf23e8a Date: 2012-09-25 13:34:47 +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>
Linux pharo-build.lille.inria.fr 2.6.18-194.26.1.el5xen #1 SMP Tue Nov 9 14:13:46 EST 2010 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
plugin path: /home/t3/pharo2/bin/ [default: /home/t3/pharo2/bin/]

And that seems to work fine.

Thanks for the quick answers!

Sven

On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>:
>
>> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-)
>
> The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :)
>
> Norbert

I feel old ;-)

No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day you install a production machine and then you are happy that it keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it. Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365.

Sven

Am 23.05.2013 um 19:23 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>:
I know this feeling so well, too. I try not to run those things for too long. We virtualized most things in OS instances. So we can move to a new hardware every couple of years and keep all old OS instances as they are. They are just copied over.
From time to time I create a modern OS instance and slowly migrate stuff from the old into the new environment. If I feel confident I switch. I could leave the machines just running. But that striked me some times already in my life. In times were you are really busy and you have a lot of balls in the air the old hardware will break. And what do you do then? Even restoring a full backup on a new machine doesn't need to go smooth. It is real pain. So it is IMHO always better to upgrade steadily when you find time instead in panicking times.

Norbert

You are not old, this the reality of modern software 1% innovation / improvement,  99% annoyance .
And its definitely not just you and me.  

CentOS may be a better bet for those long term things.

http://centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=5

Or pure Debian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian (Chart at the bottom)

I am now using Debian for my own stuff FWIW.

Phil

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>:
>
>> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-)
>
> The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :)
>
> Norbert

I feel old ;-)

No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day you install a production machine and then you are happy that it keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it. Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365.

Sven

Sven,

I know what you are talking about.

Frankly I make an effort to ensure that the latest version of Metacello continues to run on older versions of Squeak/Pharo/GemStone because I know that it doesn't always make sense to port perfectly good production apps to the latest version of a platform ...

With that said, I did have to "drop support" of Pharo1.0 because I couldn't get it to run on travis:)

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <[hidden email]>
| To: "Discusses Development of Pharo" <[hidden email]>
| Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:23:26 AM
| Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS
|
|
| On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
|
| > Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe
| > <[hidden email]>:
| >
| >> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released
| >> before that ;-)
| >
| > The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include
| > security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a
| > modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual
| > machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with
| > old stuff :)
| >
| > Norbert
|
| I feel old ;-)
|
| No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day
| you install a production machine and then you are happy that it
| keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and
| years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it.
| Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365.
|
| Sven
|