Pharo instead of Node.js
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Hello.
-- Now that Amber has bootstrapped, and Amber code is compiled into Javascript by the frontend, why the need to use a Node.js backend? Why not manage dependencies and tasks from a Pharo image? Why use tools like Bower and Grunt, which are written in JS? I really don't think Javascript has any edge over Smalltalk. Just wondering. Greetings, Spyryto You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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Hi,
> Am 24.04.2015 um 13:01 schrieb Spyryto <[hidden email]>: > > Hello. > > Now that Amber has bootstrapped, and Amber code is compiled into Javascript > by the frontend, why the need to use a Node.js backend? > Amber is a smalltalk dialect that compiles to javascript. So you need a javascript runtime to execute it on the server. Node.js is a good match. > Why not manage dependencies and tasks from a Pharo image? Why use tools Why make amber dependant on pharo? Why not on VisualWorks? If you use Grunt et al. they are most likely known by developers considering amber development. On the other hand where are those pharo tools that could replace Grunt et al.? Right they do not exist, yet. > like Bower and Grunt, which are written in JS? I really don't think Javascript has > any edge over Smalltalk. > That sounds like you want to use the squeak plugin in your browser instead of amber. Then you have not deal with javascript at all. my 2 cents, Norbert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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In reply to this post by Spyryto
Spyryto wrote: > Hello. > > Now that Amber has bootstrapped, and Amber code is compiled into Javascript > by the frontend, why the need to use a Node.js backend? > > Why not manage dependencies and tasks from a Pharo image? Why use tools > like Bower and Grunt, which are written in JS? I really don't think > Javascript has > any edge over Smalltalk. Because Amber is aimed at the JS ecosystem in the browser, mainly. To use its libraries and blend with its tooling. It's not a standalone platform. It's more a library that wants to play nice with all the others. > Just wondering. > Greetings, > > Spyryto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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In reply to this post by NorbertHartl
Amber is a smalltalk dialect that compiles to javascript. So you need a javascript runtime to execute it on the server. Node.js is a good match. You mean there is Amber code meant to be run on the server? I was not aware about that. Why make amber dependant on pharo? Why not on VisualWorks? I was thinking about the Tide project, that is, an environment in which you use Smalltalk on the backend and in the browser. An all-Smalltalk stack is way cooler that an all-JS one. If you use Grunt et al. they are most likely known by developers considering amber development. I am considering Amber because I want to write Smalltalk, and I am not familiar with Grunt et al. Instead, they seem layers of knowledge I have to push into my throat, while I'm not interested in them. Moreover, Grunt is not the most widely appreciated tool (or the easiest one), if compared to Gulp. All these Javascript based tools are moving targets, until they get rewritten in a homoiconic language ;-) On the other hand where are those pharo tools that could replace Grunt et al.? Right they do not exist, yet. That is the real question. That sounds like you want to use the squeak plugin in your browser instead of amber. Then you have not deal with javascript at all. Maybe Squeak.js then. I really would be glad not using HTML, CSS or JS at all. Spyryto You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík
Because Amber is aimed at the JS ecosystem in the browser, mainly. To I see. Thanks. Spyryto You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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In reply to this post by Spyryto
Spyryto wrote: > > > Amber is a smalltalk dialect that compiles to javascript. So you > need a javascript runtime to execute it on the server. Node.js is a > good match. > > > You mean there is Amber code meant to be run on the server? I was not > aware about that. `amber` cli itself, for example. The one that does `amber init` and `amber serve` for you. > Moreover, Grunt is not the most widely appreciated tool (or the easiest > one), if compared to Gulp. Amber development is not per se dependent on grunt. `amber init` pre-creates Gruntfile.js for you for all the useful infrastructure, but afaik the task API tries to be standardized, so the amber task could maybe reusable by gulp as well (don't know for sure). That said, if you want to use gulp, it is maybe just a matter of porting tasks which Gruntfile.js defines, are you're done. Or maybe not. Haven't tried myself. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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Herby Vojčík wrote: > > > Spyryto wrote: >> You mean there is Amber code meant to be run on the server? I was not >> aware about that. > > `amber` cli itself, for example. The one that does `amber init` and > `amber serve` for you. And the cli tester, which gets run when you do `npm test` (which calls `grunt test`, which compiles skeleton of test runner with packages that should be tested jit, runs it and deletes it when it succeeds). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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In reply to this post by Spyryto
If you think running a complete vm and an image in the browser is feasible for your project just proceed. Norbert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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In reply to this post by Spyryto
On 4/24/15, Spyryto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Amber is a smalltalk dialect that compiles to javascript. So you need a >> javascript runtime to execute it on the server. Node.js is a good match. >> > > You mean there is Amber code meant to be run on the server? I was not aware > > about that. > > Why make amber dependant on pharo? Why not on VisualWorks? > > > I was thinking about the Tide project, that is, an environment in which you > > use Smalltalk on the backend and in the browser. An all-Smalltalk stack is > way cooler that an all-JS one. > > - Video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFtTCZn10Ak> > - Slides <http://www.slideshare.net/esug/esug2014-tide> > > If you use Grunt et al. they are most likely known by developers >> considering amber development. > > > I am considering Amber because I want to write Smalltalk, and I am not > familiar with Grunt et al. Instead, they seem layers of knowledge I have to > > push into my throat, while I'm not interested in them. The knowhow needed to operate npm, bower and grunt in connection with Amber is quite small these days. It has gone down with every version. You must be ready to use the command line and issue commands llike git clone npm install .... amber init grunt devel grunt deploy That is all in the simplest case (i.e. no additional JavaScript libraries). Just try for one or hours and start with https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/blob/master/README.md Do not hesitate to report issues here immediately .... > Moreover, Grunt is not the most widely appreciated tool (or the easiest > one), if compared to Gulp. > > All these Javascript based tools are moving targets, until they get > rewritten in a homoiconic language ;-) > > >> On the other hand where are those pharo tools that could replace Grunt et >> >> al.? Right they do not exist, yet. >> > > That is the real question. > > >> That sounds like you want to use the squeak plugin in your browser instead >> >> of amber. Then you have not deal with javascript at all. >> > > Maybe Squeak.js then. I really would be glad not using HTML, CSS or JS at > all. > > Spyryto > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
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