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Pharo on Apple App Store

laurent laffont
Hi,

is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn objective-C ?


Laurent 
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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

EstebanLM
Hi,
yes you can!
...but the application must be code signed :)

best,
Esteban

El 04/03/2011, a las 5:53a.m., laurent laffont escribió:

> Hi,
>
> is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn objective-C ?
>
>
> Laurent


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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

abergel
What does it mean?
I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.

Cheers,
Alexandre


On 4 Mar 2011, at 10:04, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> Hi,
> yes you can!
> ...but the application must be code signed :)
>
> best,
> Esteban
>
> El 04/03/2011, a las 5:53a.m., laurent laffont escribió:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn objective-C ?
>>
>>
>> Laurent
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

hilaire
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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

abergel
> Le 04/03/2011 14:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
>> What does it mean?
>> I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
>
> Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.

Which is?

Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

hilaire
In reply to this post by laurent laffont
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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

hilaire
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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

Olivier Auverlot
In reply to this post by hilaire
I found a tutorial on the Blitzbasic forum. It seems possible with Pharo.

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=93636

Olivier ;-)
www.auverlot.fr
Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD
We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo
environment for ipad/iphone.
Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be
handy as we are both very busy.

Hilaire


Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
Hi,

is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store
(OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn
objective-C ?


Laurent 


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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by hilaire
This is *my* roadmap:

1) we create a repeatable vm build process (I'm working on that with Igor... taking more time than desired, but we are *almost* there). This step is good for going into app store because that way people can build and code-sign the vms with their own signatures. (AFAIK, you can't sign the binaries, but I might be wrong... not fully checked yet)
2) well... you don't need anything else, once you can sign, you can upload with your developer account :)

There is also "design guidelines" for OSX, which you'll need to follow. But I'm uncertain on how this will affect pharo applications.


best,
Esteban

El 04/03/2011, a las 10:36a.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió:

> Le 04/03/2011 14:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
>> What does it mean?
>> I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
>
> Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.
>
>


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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by hilaire
Well... I'm willing to help there... at least at a VM level, is also my "job" :)

El 04/03/2011, a las 10:41a.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió:

> Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD
> We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo
> environment for ipad/iphone.
> Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be
> handy as we are both very busy.
>
> Hilaire
>
>
> Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store
>> (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn
>> objective-C ?
>>
>>
>> Laurent
>
>
> --
> Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire
>
>


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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

abergel
In reply to this post by hilaire
>> Which is?
>>
>> Alexandre
>
> I read prediction Android may take it all.
>
> Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which
> is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?

Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user. The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.

By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.

Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by Olivier Auverlot
ha! 
I didn't know codesign online tool exists... thanks for the point :) 


El 04/03/2011, a las 10:51a.m., Olivier Auverlot escribió:

I found a tutorial on the Blitzbasic forum. It seems possible with Pharo.

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=93636

Olivier ;-)
www.auverlot.fr
Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD
We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo
environment for ipad/iphone.
Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be
handy as we are both very busy.

Hilaire


Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
Hi,

is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store
(OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn
objective-C ?


Laurent 

    


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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

Stephan Eggermont
In reply to this post by laurent laffont
Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
>I read prediction Android may take it all.

There are currently no signs of that. Stephen Elop (of Nokia) allegedly wrote

"In 2008, Apple’s market share in the $300+ price range was 25 percent;
by 2010 it escalated to 61 percent. They are enjoying a tremendous growth
trajectory with a 78 percent earnings growth year over year in Q4 2010."

That means there can be large numbers of Android devices on the market,
but at a very low price. That's killing the producers, instead of making them
rich.

Or to explain it differently: Apple's problem is getting enough devices out the
door. Not the price. If they want more market share, they can simply introduce
lower-priced models, unlike the Android producers. As long as the Android
market is so shattered and so incapable of producing compelling alternatives,
they wait.

Do you know "Inside the Tornado" by Geoffrey A. Moore (you might know him
from "Crossing the Chasm"). My version has a quote by the founder and CEO,
NeXT Computer on the title page.

Stephan
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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

Mariano Martinez Peck
In reply to this post by abergel


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Which is?
>>
>> Alexandre
>
> I read prediction Android may take it all.
>
> Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which
> is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?

Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user.

Do you want to build the best OS ever?   Just write a nice/sexy UI with:

- a program to chat with all MSN/iChat/skype/etc
- firefox  (consider using a that a microsoft office like website for words, excels, etc)
- a program to listen to music
- a program to watch videos
- a program to read pdfs

And that's all. You have covered 90% of the needs of 90% of the existen users.
An OS that never fails, and that has just 5 buttons for those things, is all they need. Don't even put names to programs, jsut: "chat" "internet" "music" "videos" and "pictures"

cheers

mariano


 
The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.

By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.

Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.







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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

laurent laffont


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Which is?
>>
>> Alexandre
>
> I read prediction Android may take it all.
>
> Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which
> is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?

Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user.

Do you want to build the best OS ever?   Just write a nice/sexy UI with:

- a program to chat with all MSN/iChat/skype/etc
- firefox  (consider using a that a microsoft office like website for words, excels, etc)
- a program to listen to music
- a program to watch videos
- a program to read pdfs

And that's all. You have covered 90% of the needs of 90% of the existen users.
An OS that never fails, and that has just 5 buttons for those things, is all they need. Don't even put names to programs, jsut: "chat" "internet" "music" "videos" and "pictures"

cool ! An OS flamewar begins ! Love this. Linux rulez !!!!!

Laurent

 

cheers

mariano


 
The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.

By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.

Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.








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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

Mariano Martinez Peck


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:15 PM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Which is?
>>
>> Alexandre
>
> I read prediction Android may take it all.
>
> Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which
> is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?

Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user.

Do you want to build the best OS ever?   Just write a nice/sexy UI with:

- a program to chat with all MSN/iChat/skype/etc
- firefox  (consider using a that a microsoft office like website for words, excels, etc)
- a program to listen to music
- a program to watch videos
- a program to read pdfs

And that's all. You have covered 90% of the needs of 90% of the existen users.
An OS that never fails, and that has just 5 buttons for those things, is all they need. Don't even put names to programs, jsut: "chat" "internet" "music" "videos" and "pictures"

cool ! An OS flamewar begins ! Love this. Linux rulez !!!!!


sure. Whatever. (I was a linux guy too, but now I have a mac hahah). Pute those 6 buttons in fullscreen, with those 6 tols and you have the perfect and easy to understand/use OS.
 
Laurent

 

cheers

mariano


 
The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.

By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.

Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.









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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
I like this plan.!
One click VM building :)

> This is *my* roadmap:
>
> 1) we create a repeatable vm build process (I'm working on that with Igor... taking more time than desired, but we are *almost* there). This step is good for going into app store because that way people can build and code-sign the vms with their own signatures. (AFAIK, you can't sign the binaries, but I might be wrong... not fully checked yet)
> 2) well... you don't need anything else, once you can sign, you can upload with your developer account :)
>
> There is also "design guidelines" for OSX, which you'll need to follow. But I'm uncertain on how this will affect pharo applications.
>
>
> best,
> Esteban
>
> El 04/03/2011, a las 10:36a.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió:
>
>> Le 04/03/2011 14:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
>>> What does it mean?
>>> I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
>>
>> Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

hilaire
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

johnmci
In reply to this post by laurent laffont
I'm not sure anyone really answered the question. 

(a) Yes you can build squeak/pharo VM based applications for the iOS platform and distribute in the App Store. This assumes you adhere to the rules.

(b) Yes you can build Squeak/pharo VM based applications for the OS-X platform and distribute in the OS-X App Store.  This assumes someone wants to take the time to port the file dialog logic from Sophie to Pharo since you will be rejected if you present a Squeak file open/save dialog. 

Lastly you can't download MC packages to the app for doing on the fly updates, any updates have to go thru the app store. An example of alternate technology is Sparkle and Apple has rejected apps that use that technology to provide an update path. 

PS No I can't say I've actually attempted getting a squeak based app into the OS-X store, perhaps this summer, still that is my tea leaf reading of the situation. 


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:53 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn objective-C ?


Laurent 



--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================



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Re: Pharo on Apple App Store

laurent laffont
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:19 AM, John McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm not sure anyone really answered the question. 

(a) Yes you can build squeak/pharo VM based applications for the iOS platform and distribute in the App Store. This assumes you adhere to the rules.

(b) Yes you can build Squeak/pharo VM based applications for the OS-X platform and distribute in the OS-X App Store.  This assumes someone wants to take the time to port the file dialog logic from Sophie to Pharo since you will be rejected if you present a Squeak file open/save dialog. 

Thanks John.

Is the licence of Sophie file dialog code MIT ?

Laurent


Lastly you can't download MC packages to the app for doing on the fly updates, any updates have to go thru the app store. An example of alternate technology is Sparkle and Apple has rejected apps that use that technology to provide an update path.  

PS No I can't say I've actually attempted getting a squeak based app into the OS-X store, perhaps this summer, still that is my tea leaf reading of the situation. 


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:53 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible  or should I learn objective-C ?


Laurent 



--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================




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