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Jan Kurš

Pharo on Chromebook

Hi, has anyone an experience with running Pharo on Chromebook (using Crostini)? It worked reasonably well for me in the past (3 months ago), now I see rendering issues:

I tried with latest and greatest Pharo8 and fresh image, I see the same rendering issue.

Thanks, Jan

tesonep@gmail.com

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

Hi Jan,

sorry about listening of your problems. Can you give me more details of the version that you are using? (Architecture, OS, Pharo and VM). It looks like a problem with the rendering. I will try to reproduce it in a VM.

Thanks for the report.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:52 PM Jan Kurš <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, has anyone an experience with running Pharo on Chromebook (using Crostini)? It worked reasonably well for me in the past (3 months ago), now I see rendering issues:

I tried with latest and greatest Pharo8 and fresh image, I see the same rendering issue.

Thanks, Jan

Pablo Tesone.
[hidden email]

Jan Kurš

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

Hi Pablo, sure. I am running on HP Chromebook X2 (full spec). Current Chrome OS 81.

Help -> About shows this: Pharo 8.0.0, Build information: Pharo-8.0.0+build.1136.sha.a153e04ae4e325509ed78bfe25c9ce560afb24b0 (64 Bit)

$ pharo-vm/pharo --version
5.0-202002121043 Wed Feb 12 11:06:45 UTC 2020 gcc 5.4.0 [Production Spur 64-bit VM]
CoInterpreter * VMMaker-CompatibleUserName.1580983506 uuid: 7aff73cb-5a2e-5002-a356-37de4e762a49 Feb 12 2020
StackToRegisterMappingCogit * VMMaker-CompatibleUserName.1580983506 uuid: 7aff73cb-5a2e-5002-a356-37de4e762a49 Feb 12 2020
VM: 202002121043 https://github.com/pharo-project/opensmalltalk-vm.git
Date: Wed Feb 12 11:43:20 2020 CommitHash: 52202d8
Plugins: 202002121043 https://github.com/pharo-project/opensmalltalk-vm.git
Linux travis-job-93347cf3-9798-4672-8c23-706b9ceb049b 4.15.0-1028-gcp #29~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Tue Feb 12 16:31:10 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
plugin path: pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-202002121043 [default: /home/kurs/pharo8/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-202002121043/]

Is there any other information I can provide?

Cheers, Jan

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:57 PM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Jan,
sorry about listening of your problems. Can you give me more details of the version that you are using? (Architecture, OS, Pharo and VM). It looks like a problem with the rendering. I will try to reproduce it in a VM.

Thanks for the report.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:52 PM Jan Kurš <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, has anyone an experience with running Pharo on Chromebook (using Crostini)? It worked reasonably well for me in the past (3 months ago), now I see rendering issues:

I tried with latest and greatest Pharo8 and fresh image, I see the same rendering issue.

Thanks, Jan

--
Pablo Tesone.
[hidden email]

tbrunz

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

In reply to this post by tesonep@gmail.com

Hi Pablo,

I'm seeing the same thing on a Chromebook "Pixelbook" Crostini (Linux)
container:

Debian v9 ("stretch"), Linux kernel 4.9.0-12, recently updated. The system
has 8GB RAM & 128GB SSD.

The ChromeOS version in 81.0.4044.141.

I'm running the latest Pharo Launcher, 2.0-2020.04.07, VM 5.0-202002121043.

Just opening Pharo Launcher, and without even launching an image, I'm seeing
the same tearing and rendering problems as Jan. If I open the Settings
dialog, it partially renders, and when I try to move the window, I get the
tearing behavior.

And I was also able to run PL & images on this platform without problems in
the past. (It's been at least a month since I tried running Pharo on a
Chromebook.)

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

I think that we will have to buy one of such device.

What would be a good choice?

I know Olivier runs pharo on his without problem,

@olivier which Chrome book do you suggest us to buy?

On 8 Jun 2020, at 00:40, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Pablo,

I'm seeing the same thing on a Chromebook "Pixelbook" Crostini (Linux)
container:

Debian v9 ("stretch"), Linux kernel 4.9.0-12, recently updated. The system
has 8GB RAM & 128GB SSD.

The ChromeOS version in 81.0.4044.141.

I'm running the latest Pharo Launcher, 2.0-2020.04.07, VM 5.0-202002121043.

Just opening Pharo Launcher, and without even launching an image, I'm seeing
the same tearing and rendering problems as Jan. If I open the Settings
dialog, it partially renders, and when I try to move the window, I get the
tearing behavior.

And I was also able to run PL & images on this platform without problems in
the past. (It's been at least a month since I tried running Pharo on a
Chromebook.)

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

Thanks Olivier

You do not experiment UI glitches so this means that it probably depend on the OS version.

On 8 Jun 2020, at 09:22, olivier auverlot <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

The leaders of the Chromebooks are Asus, Acer and HP. I recommend you to choose a recent model with a powerfull x86 processor. Them support Chrome apps, Android apps and Crostini for Linux apps. This last mode allows running Pharo on Chrome OS. Avoid the low cost Chromebooks. The middle price for a good computer is around 600-700 euros.

In my case, I own a HP x360 14 (i5, 8 Go ram, 64 Go SSD, tactile screen, very good autonomy, backlight keyboard and very beautifull computer).

The best vendor in France is Gowizyou that is a Google official partner (https://gowizyou.com). They are very serious and work with administrations, schools, etc. You can buy online on the Gowizyou store.

Best regards
Olivier ;-)

Le lun. 8 juin 2020 à 07:58, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I think that we will have to buy one of such device.
What would be a good choice?
I know Olivier runs pharo on his without problem,
@olivier which Chrome book do you suggest us to buy?

S.

On 8 Jun 2020, at 00:40, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Pablo,

I'm seeing the same thing on a Chromebook "Pixelbook" Crostini (Linux)
container:

Debian v9 ("stretch"), Linux kernel 4.9.0-12, recently updated. The system
has 8GB RAM & 128GB SSD.

The ChromeOS version in 81.0.4044.141.

I'm running the latest Pharo Launcher, 2.0-2020.04.07, VM 5.0-202002121043.

Just opening Pharo Launcher, and without even launching an image, I'm seeing
the same tearing and rendering problems as Jan. If I open the Settings
dialog, it partially renders, and when I try to move the window, I get the
tearing behavior.

And I was also able to run PL & images on this platform without problems in
the past. (It's been at least a month since I tried running Pharo on a
Chromebook.)

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Aurore Dalle
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

tesonep@gmail.com

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

Hi, I have tested with CloudReady (another variation of Chromium OS)
but I couldn't reproduce the error. Maybe there is a problem with the
latest version of Chrome OS (that of course is not the same).

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 8:25 AM Stéphane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I think that we will have to buy one of such device.
> What would be a good choice?
> I know Olivier runs pharo on his without problem,
> @olivier which Chrome book do you suggest us to buy?
>
> S.
>
> On 8 Jun 2020, at 00:40, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Pablo,
>
> I'm seeing the same thing on a Chromebook "Pixelbook" Crostini (Linux)
> container:
>
> Debian v9 ("stretch"), Linux kernel 4.9.0-12, recently updated. The system
> has 8GB RAM & 128GB SSD.
>
> The ChromeOS version in 81.0.4044.141.
>
> I'm running the latest Pharo Launcher, 2.0-2020.04.07, VM 5.0-202002121043.
>
> Just opening Pharo Launcher, and without even launching an image, I'm seeing
> the same tearing and rendering problems as Jan. If I open the Settings
> dialog, it partially renders, and when I try to move the window, I get the
> tearing behavior.
>
> And I was also able to run PL & images on this platform without problems in
> the past. (It's been at least a month since I tried running Pharo on a
> Chromebook.)
>
> -Ted
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Stéphane Ducasse
> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
> 03 59 35 87 52
> Assistant: Aurore Dalle
> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
> S. Ducasse - Inria
> 40, avenue Halley,
> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
> France
>

--
Pablo Tesone.
[hidden email]

tbrunz

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

No, it's not quite the same... I've installed CloudReady on old
(non-Chromebook) systems myself, so I'm a little bit familiar with it and
what it can do.

However, I've never tried to run 'Crostini' in CloudReady, so I don't know
if that works, or (if it does), how well it parallels the implementation of
Crostini on Google Chromebooks. I have read up some on how Google
implements a GUI interface to applications running in its Linux containers,
and it's not trivial. (But it does work very well on Chromebooks -- you can
install a Linux app and have a clickable icon that appears just like any
other ChromeOS or Android app icon.)

And, yes, Crostini Linux containers give you a way to develop software on
Chromebooks! Not only does Pharo work, but also other languages can be
installed. (I'm running Pharo, Lua, and Lisp on my Pixelbook model.)

For those who are not familiar with CloudReady: The company 'Neverware',
with Google's approval (and investment), took ChromeOS's open-source
foundation, Chromium OS, and built its own "Chromebook-like" version on top
of it called 'CloudReady'.

It was designed for schools, to give their old PCs new life -- they can run
Google's 'G Suite for Education' while managing CloudReady PCs & laptops
with the 'Google Admin Console'. Businesses, other organizations, and
individuals can use it too. It's also free for individual users who don't
require Google Admin tools.

Like ChromeOS, CloudReady is updated every six weeks or so with security
fixes and new features. And as with ChromeOS, to use CloudReady you must
have a Google account. It not only runs on old WinTel systems, it runs on
Mac hardware as well.

You can 'test drive' CloudReady on your system without installing it (or
wiping out your existing OS) by booting it from a USB thumb drive. If you
decide you like it, you can later overwrite your system's OS by installing
it to disk. Be aware that it will "take over" your entire drive and
restrict the ways you can access it. (Crostini significantly opens up how
you can use your disk space, since it basically implements a full Linux file
system inside its container.)

Here's a recent, detailed article on CloudReady, which includes procedures
on how to make a bootable USB thumb drive, test drive it, and install it:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-switch-from-windows-7-to-chrome-os-cloudready/

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

tbrunz

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

It's important to get a Chromebook with an Intel CPU. The ARM-based
Chromebooks cannot run Crostini, so they do not have the option of running
Linux containers -- so, no Pharo on ARM Chromebooks!

Also, it's important to get a later model, in order to get a Linux kernel
that supports containers on Chromebooks. Google does NOT update the Linux
kernel in ChromeOS; it updates everything else, but not the kernel version.
Be sure to get a model that is known to support Linux containers.

(The reason is that Google heavily modifies the Linux kernel to support
Chromebook hardware, and they don't have a good, automated system for
applying & testing their modifications to later kernel versions. So.. no
kernel updates -- only packages & applications get updates.)

Newer Chromebook models have newer kernels; only newer kernels include
container support, enabling them to run Pharo. But of course, since you
will, in effect, be running two OSes on the system, you will want a more
powerful CPU, more memory, and more SSD storage.

As Olivier correctly points out, you should get a middle-level or
upper-level Chromebook for this. I have a Google Pixelbook (the lowest of 3
versions) and it runs everything smoothly. His HP x360 14 is a very good
model as well. Today there are many powerful Chromebooks to choose from.
Just be aware of the considerations above.

One more thing: Chromebooks not only run ChromeOS and "web apps", and now
run Android apps, and with Crostini run Linux apps, you can install Wine (or
Crossover) in Crostini and run Windows apps as well. (Everything except Mac
apps.)

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Pharo on Chromebook

thanks.

For us this is also a question of…. resources :)

Because buying a machine is the cheap and easy part.

So we will discuss to see what we do.

On 9 Jun 2020, at 03:43, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's important to get a Chromebook with an Intel CPU. The ARM-based
Chromebooks cannot run Crostini, so they do not have the option of running
Linux containers -- so, no Pharo on ARM Chromebooks!

Also, it's important to get a later model, in order to get a Linux kernel
that supports containers on Chromebooks. Google does NOT update the Linux
kernel in ChromeOS; it updates everything else, but not the kernel version.
Be sure to get a model that is known to support Linux containers.

(The reason is that Google heavily modifies the Linux kernel to support
Chromebook hardware, and they don't have a good, automated system for
applying & testing their modifications to later kernel versions. So.. no
kernel updates -- only packages & applications get updates.)

Newer Chromebook models have newer kernels; only newer kernels include
container support, enabling them to run Pharo. But of course, since you
will, in effect, be running two OSes on the system, you will want a more
powerful CPU, more memory, and more SSD storage.

As Olivier correctly points out, you should get a middle-level or
upper-level Chromebook for this. I have a Google Pixelbook (the lowest of 3
versions) and it runs everything smoothly. His HP x360 14 is a very good
model as well. Today there are many powerful Chromebooks to choose from.
Just be aware of the considerations above.

One more thing: Chromebooks not only run ChromeOS and "web apps", and now
run Android apps, and with Crostini run Linux apps, you can install Wine (or
Crossover) in Crostini and run Windows apps as well. (Everything except Mac
apps.)

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France