PharoMinimal ?

Hi Pavel,

I'd probably see some interest in building the GitFileTree-MergeDriver with it. It only requires Monticello.

Thierry

Le 08/10/2017 à 12:41, Pavel Krivanek a écrit :

Hi Sven,

2017-10-07 16:18 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:

    Hi,

    What is the story around PharoMinimal and related images ?

    Is there a writeup somewhere with instructions ?


Right now the minimal (Metacello) image based on Pharo 7 is used only as intermediate step in building of the full Pharo and the only real (successful) attempt to use it for something else is PharoLambda (https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda).

In general it can be used for building of own (server) applications. E.g. this way you can install and run Teapot on it:

./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image config http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main ConfigurationOfTeapot --install=stable
./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image eval --no-quit "Teapot on GET: '/welcome' -> 'Hello World'; start."

You can load baselines from the Git repositories too but we currently do not have any command line handler for it so you need to do it using "eval" command or *.st flile. Something like this:

Metacello new
baseline: 'Seaside3';
repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
load

To make it more usable we probably should extend it with SUnit and Fuel. If you want to extend it with some packages from vanilla Pharo, you should load them using FileTree from your local Pharo repository clone.

Gofer it
url: 'filetree:///path-to-my-pharo-repository-clone/pharo/src';
package: 'Multilingual-OtherLanguages';
package: 'Multilingual-TextConverterOtherLanguages';
load.

It still needs some care. E.g. some classes from Zinc are not properly initialized (I know about DigitalSignatureAlgorithm MD5NonPrimitive RxMatcher RxParser RxsPredicate SHA1 ZnByteEncoder ZnConstants ZnMimeType ZnNetworkingUtils ZnServer ZnSingleThreadedServer TextConstants TextAction TextStyle).

I tried to load Seaside into it today (from the example above) and it failed (some strange error probalby related to Unicode processing). But we will fix it. If you will tell me what exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of PharoLambda.


    I see that we get **FANTASTIC** startup speed with it:

    $ cat /etc/issue
    Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS

    $ ./pharo --version
    5.0-201708271955  Sun Aug 27 20:09:20 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3 [Production
    Spur VM]
    CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2265 uuid:
    76b62109-629a-4c39-9641-67b53321df9a Aug 27 2017
    StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262 uuid:
    8b531242-de02-48aa-b418-8d2dde0bec6c Aug 27 2017
    VM: 201708271955
    https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
    <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git> $ Date: Sun
    Aug 27 21:55:26 2017 +0200 $
    Plugins: 201708271955
    https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
    <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git> $
    Linux testing-gce-ebf45dd8-6a4c-43a5-abd0-e5d8673d05a4
    3.13.0-115-generic #162~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 24 16:47:06 UTC
    2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
    plugin path:
    /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955 [default:
    /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955/]

    $ curl get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal> | bash

    ...

    $ ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion
    [version] 'Pharo7.0'
    'Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha.d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f
    (32 Bit)'

    $ time ./pharo Pharo.image eval '5 factorial'
    120
    real    0m0.083s
    user    0m0.034s
    sys     0m0.042s

    That is less than 1/10 of a second on a simple server ! Wow.

    Loading new code in that image seem hard though.

    I see that in http://files.pharo.org/image/70/
    <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/> there are Pharomonticello &
    Pharometacello variants.

    Any pointers on usage/meaning ?


Monticello is bootstrapped Pharo image with Monticello loaded. This image then loads Metacello and the generated image is the image that we call "minimal". It is minimal in sense minimal for common usage.

During Pharo building process we generate:
- bootstrapped image
- image with Opal that is loaded as binary packages using Hermes
- Monticello with only local repositories support
- Monticello with network and remote repositories support
- Metacello
- full Pharo IDE (which is loaded as sequence of several standalone baselines)

Cheers,
-- Pavel

    Thx,

    Sven

Hi Guille,

Le 08/10/2017 à 18:24, Guillermo Polito a écrit :

For a really high-level explanation, check the slides in here:

https://www.slideshare.net/GuillePolito1/understanding-the-pharo-dev-process-79632181

Thanks for the pointers. I tried to do something in the Pharo4 days (I still have probably somewhere a start of baselines and package to add to a minimal pharo4 image, then the external project integration changed and this approach would have failed...)

Now, as Pavel says, minimal is an image with metacello (+ its dependencies of course).

This means that you could try to install packages on top of it using baselines.

Cool.

Still, lot of work to do in that front, mainly
  - modularisation of the minimal-image packages, so we can build even smaller images
  - modularisation and baselines for all full-image packages, so we can build incremental images on a per-user flavour

This is really interesting.

This means of course
  - cleaning/sorting initializations
  - refactoring packages
  - Uncovering hidden and runtime dependencies
  - making some analyses on how space is taken (most is methods, tons in kernel and collections ;))

What is not so clear yet from the top of my head: if we distribute minimal images, how can we distribute the pharo libraries that you can load on top of them easily. So far, people using pharo minimal are aware that they are using an alpha version. That means that if they want to load on top of it, let's say, Morphic, they will need to do something like

Metacello new
baseline: 'Morphic';
repository: 'github://pharo-project/pharo:development/src';
load

But that means that we'll be loading the so called 'bleeding-edge' of it all the time, and that version may not correspond with the image they are using.

This makes me think we have at some point to revisit the release process so we can have releases internal of libraries such as morphic, athens, fuel, etc, more often.

I think I can suggest a solution. When building an image on the command line (as us Makefile users are keen to do), it is easy to customize the additional packages/baselines you load based on some internal state of
the image being built.

So, for example, if you tag the minimal image when built with, say v70123, then one can write on the command line:

pharo/pharo pharo/Pharo.image --no-default-preferences eval --save Metacello new baseline: \'Morphic\'\; repository: \'github://pharo-project/pharo:\'\, SystemVersion current buildNumber printString\, \'/src\'\; load

Et hop, voilà: you get the right Morphic for the minimal image with a minimum amount of distortion.

If not, then it could be enough to have the short commit ID of the pharo repository when the minimal image was built: it is enough to get a github:// url to work.

Well, if you keep naming your images like that:

Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image

Then we could even do it this way in the image building makefile (and you don't have anything to do)(*).

I'll have a try at it.

Thierry

(*) External projects would have to sort it out, still. But, IMHO, it is a duty of an external project to be in sync if it wants to stay external...

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    Hi Pavel,

    I'd probably see some interest in building the
    GitFileTree-MergeDriver with it. It only requires Monticello.

    Thierry

    Le 08/10/2017 à 12:41, Pavel Krivanek a écrit :

        Hi Sven,

        2017-10-07 16:18 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]
        <mailto:[hidden email]> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>:


             Hi,

             What is the story around PharoMinimal and related images ?

             Is there a writeup somewhere with instructions ?


        Right now the minimal (Metacello) image based on Pharo 7 is used
        only as intermediate step in building of the full Pharo and the
        only real (successful) attempt to use it for something else is
        PharoLambda (https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda
        <https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda>).

        In general it can be used for building of own (server)
        applications. E.g. this way you can install and run Teapot on it:

        ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image config
        http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main
        <http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main>
        ConfigurationOfTeapot --install=stable
        ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image eval --no-quit
        "Teapot on GET: '/welcome' -> 'Hello World'; start."

        You can load baselines from the Git repositories too but we
        currently do not have any command line handler for it so you
        need to do it using "eval" command or *.st flile. Something like
        this:

        Metacello new
        baseline: 'Seaside3';
        repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';
        load

        To make it more usable we probably should extend it with SUnit
        and Fuel. If you want to extend it with some packages from
        vanilla Pharo, you should load them using FileTree from your
        local Pharo repository clone.

        Gofer it
        url: 'filetree:///path-to-my-pharo-repository-clone/pharo/src';
        package: 'Multilingual-OtherLanguages';
        package: 'Multilingual-TextConverterOtherLanguages';
        load.

        It still needs some care. E.g. some classes from Zinc are not
        properly initialized (I know about DigitalSignatureAlgorithm
        MD5NonPrimitive RxMatcher RxParser RxsPredicate SHA1
        ZnByteEncoder ZnConstants ZnMimeType ZnNetworkingUtils ZnServer
        ZnSingleThreadedServer TextConstants TextAction TextStyle).

        I tried to load Seaside into it today (from the example above)
        and it failed (some strange error probalby related to Unicode
        processing). But we will fix it. If you will tell me what
        exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of
        PharoLambda.


             I see that we get **FANTASTIC** startup speed with it:

             $ cat /etc/issue
             Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS

             $ ./pharo --version
             5.0-201708271955  Sun Aug 27 20:09:20 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3
        [Production
             Spur VM]
             CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2265 uuid:
             76b62109-629a-4c39-9641-67b53321df9a Aug 27 2017
             StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262 uuid:
             8b531242-de02-48aa-b418-8d2dde0bec6c Aug 27 2017
             VM: 201708271955
        https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
        <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>
             <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
        <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>> $ Date: Sun
             Aug 27 21:55:26 2017 +0200 $
             Plugins: 201708271955
        https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
        <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>
             <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
        <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>> $
             Linux testing-gce-ebf45dd8-6a4c-43a5-abd0-e5d8673d05a4
             3.13.0-115-generic #162~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 24
        16:47:06 UTC
             2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
             plugin path:
             /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955
        [default:
             /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955/]

             $ curl get.pharo.org/70-minimal
        <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>

        <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal

        <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>> | bash

             ...

             $ ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion
             [version] 'Pharo7.0'
                    'Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha.d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f
             (32 Bit)'

             $ time ./pharo Pharo.image eval '5 factorial'
             120
             real    0m0.083s
             user    0m0.034s
             sys     0m0.042s

             That is less than 1/10 of a second on a simple server ! Wow.

             Loading new code in that image seem hard though.

             I see that in http://files.pharo.org/image/70/
        <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>
             <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/
        <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>> there are Pharomonticello &
             Pharometacello variants.

             Any pointers on usage/meaning ?


        Monticello is bootstrapped Pharo image with Monticello loaded.
        This image then loads Metacello and the generated image is the
        image that we call "minimal". It is minimal in sense minimal for
        common usage.

        During Pharo building process we generate:
        - bootstrapped image
        - image with Opal that is loaded as binary packages using Hermes
        - Monticello with only local repositories support
        - Monticello with network and remote repositories support
        - Metacello
        - full Pharo IDE (which is loaded as sequence of several
        standalone baselines)

        Cheers,
        -- Pavel

             Thx,

             Sven







--

       

Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - _http://www.cnrs.fr_


*Web:* _http://guillep.github.io_

*Phone: *<a href="tel:%2B33%2006%2052%2070%2066%2013" value="+33652706613" target="_blank">+33 06 52 70 66 13

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
> It is in the roadmap.

Is this available online somewhere? The only ML thread I found was from 2011
and I didn't see it on the website…



-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html