Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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Port of Cryptography to Pharo
 
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I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these methods were removed in Pharo.
Regards, Mariano _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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The most recent post on the crytography mailing list
starts out as follows:
Since
the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography package is not
maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you
can't just turn on logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine
transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It
might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I
would go with curl.
I
think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to looking at
the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from scratch and get
and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty avoidable, and IMHO, better
avoided by letting others do the job. Ever read Sun
Tzu?
Bill
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM To: Pharo Development Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Regards, Mariano _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
The cryptogarphy package is important.
Now I do not see why we would have removed methods from SmallInteger (may be with the last license cleaning) Could you tell us the methods that are missing? Stef On May 22, 2009, at 3:51 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package > Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to > Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots > of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and > these methods were removed in Pharo. > > Regards, > > Mariano > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
Just a comment,
you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. Fernando On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should
embrace both. AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and
we should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong,
please.
Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the
enormous burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be
questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of
OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely known
projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want OpenSSL for
its reputation, and who would question a home-grown
solution.
Bill
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Just a comment, you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with
curl.
Or reify any C library you want in Pharo.
Fernando On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained.
Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we > should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true > of OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers > widely known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who > will want OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- > grown solution. > > Bill > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the >> Cryptography package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL >> implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on >> logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine >> transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't >> succeding. It might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 >> fallback. If I were you, I would go with curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition >> to looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code >> from scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to >> Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots >> of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and >> these methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained.
It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in general. It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. Cheers r. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we > should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true > of OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers > widely known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who > will want OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- > grown solution. > > Bill > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the >> Cryptography package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL >> implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on >> logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine >> transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't >> succeding. It might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 >> fallback. If I were you, I would go with curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition >> to looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code >> from scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to >> Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots >> of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and >> these methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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May be contact the developers to know.
May be this is not a lot of work to have a running version in pharo. stef On May 22, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Ramiro Diaz Trepat wrote: > I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. > It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres > databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We > will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the > outside world in general. > It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. > I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no > vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. > Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. > Cheers > > r. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse > Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. > > Stef > > On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. >> AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we >> should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. >> >> Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous >> burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be >> questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true >> of OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers >> widely known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who >> will want OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- >> grown solution. >> >> Bill >> >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> >> Just a comment, >> >> you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. >> Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. >> >> Fernando >> >> >> On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >>> follows: >>> >>> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the >>> Cryptography package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL >>> implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on >>> logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine >>> transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't >>> succeding. It might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 >>> fallback. If I were you, I would go with curl. >>> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition >>> to looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code >>> from scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >>> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >>> Ever read Sun Tzu? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >>> To: Pharo Development >>> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >>> >>> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >>> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to >>> Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots >>> of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and >>> these methods were removed in Pharo. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Mariano >>> <ATT00001.txt> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and > conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of > securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, > confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, > available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Stef,
I thought so too until a while ago, but it appears to be long gone. I would enjoy being shown otherwise. However, I still think there is good reason to expose and promote both curl and OpenSSL because they will draw "customers." Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:08 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by ramiro.diaz.trepat
Ramiro,
*The* cryptography package as written was not necessary to anything; **a** crytography package is indeed necessary for lots of things, no argment there. OpenSSL can do the hashes you require courtesy of FFI/Alien or a wrapping plugin. We'll get there, and hopefully not by re-inventing the wheel as the original team chose to do; sorry, but it's a tricky area where mistakes are easy to make and can be catastrophic. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz Trepat Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:19 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in general. It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. Cheers r. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by ramiro.diaz.trepat
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Ramiro Diaz Trepat <[hidden email]> wrote: I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. Yes. That's why I saw it. I am trying to make Glorp to work in Pharo, but as you know Glorp in Squeak only works with Postgres. And the native postgres driver requieres cryptography package when you use md5 :( Just for now, I disable md5 from my postgres and use "password" auth-method. With this, cryptography is not needed. However, this is not an option in a production enviorment. Cheers, Mariano
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Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]> wrote: Ramiro, Bill why don't you propose this for a ESUG SummerTalk project ?
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Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
Hi Bill, in spite that I believe that the original cryptography package was a great piece of work, I completely agree with you in both matters: 1) we will need a crypto package soon, 2) If we want to be standing in the shoulders of giants, we better stand on OpenSSL :)
Cheers. r -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: 22 May 2009 13:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ramiro, *The* cryptography package as written was not necessary to anything; **a** crytography package is indeed necessary for lots of things, no argment there. OpenSSL can do the hashes you require courtesy of FFI/Alien or a wrapping plugin. We'll get there, and hopefully not by re-inventing the wheel as the original team chose to do; sorry, but it's a tricky area where mistakes are easy to make and can be catastrophic. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz Trepat Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:19 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in general. It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. Cheers r. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
What is involved?
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 7:48 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
wrote: Ramiro, Bill why don't you propose this for a ESUG SummerTalk project ?
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Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by ramiro.diaz.trepat
Ramiro,
They do deserve credit for persistence and skill. I *never* said they did bad work - only that they made a bad decision to reinvent vs. integrate. It's amazaing how much they accomplished. However, I suspect the incredible amount of work involved lead to burnout and a moribund project. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz Trepat Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:36 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Hi Bill, in spite that I believe that the original cryptography package was a great piece of work, I completely agree with you in both matters: 1) we will need a crypto package soon, 2) If we want to be standing in the shoulders of giants, we better stand on OpenSSL :) Cheers. r -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: 22 May 2009 13:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ramiro, *The* cryptography package as written was not necessary to anything; **a** crytography package is indeed necessary for lots of things, no argment there. OpenSSL can do the hashes you require courtesy of FFI/Alien or a wrapping plugin. We'll get there, and hopefully not by re-inventing the wheel as the original team chose to do; sorry, but it's a tricky area where mistakes are easy to make and can be catastrophic. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz Trepat Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:19 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in general. It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. Cheers r. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
You can see this page: http://www.esug.org/Promotion/SummerTalk
2009/5/22 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
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Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
Hello,
I faced the same problem with Cloudfork-AWS. This project required the Cryptography package for generating the signatures using SHA and for generating MD5 hash values. When I had problems loading the package in Pharo and I learned that the package was no longer maintained I copied the classes I required to a Cloudfork package. I needed the MD5, SHA1 and SHA256 classes. I renamed them to CFMD5, CFSHA1 and CFSHA256, I also prefixed all the methods in the required class extensions with cf. For example ThirtyTwoBitRegister>>cfBitShift: anInteger. You can use a simular approach for Glorp. Jan. PS: Another dependency of Cloudfork is a HTTP client. I'm now playing around with the CurlPlugin, this plugin works very well. Things like supporting https become real easy
2009/5/22 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]>
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Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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Hi guys
Why don;t you join forces and create a Cryptography package which work for pharo and for you. Mariano I still would love to know the method of integer that are missing Stef On May 22, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Jan van de Sandt wrote: > Hello, > > I faced the same problem with Cloudfork-AWS. This project required > the Cryptography package for generating the signatures using SHA and > for generating MD5 hash values. > > When I had problems loading the package in Pharo and I learned that > the package was no longer maintained I copied the classes I required > to a Cloudfork package. I needed the MD5, SHA1 and SHA256 classes. I > renamed them to CFMD5, CFSHA1 and CFSHA256, I also prefixed all the > methods in the required class extensions with cf. For example > ThirtyTwoBitRegister>>cfBitShift: anInteger. You can use a simular > approach for Glorp. > > Jan. > > PS: Another dependency of Cloudfork is a HTTP client. I'm now > playing around with the CurlPlugin, this plugin works very well. > Things like supporting https become real easy > > 2009/5/22 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> > > > On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Ramiro Diaz Trepat <[hidden email] > > wrote: > I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. > It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres > databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We > will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the > outside world in general. > > Yes. That's why I saw it. I am trying to make Glorp to work in > Pharo, but as you know Glorp in Squeak only works with Postgres. And > the native postgres driver requieres cryptography package when you > use md5 :( > > Just for now, I disable md5 from my postgres and use "password" auth- > method. With this, cryptography is not needed. However, this is not > an option in a production enviorment. > > Cheers, > > Mariano > > > It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. > I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no > vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. > Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. > Cheers > > r. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse > Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. > > Stef > > On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we > > should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true > > of OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers > > widely known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who > > will want OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- > > grown solution. > > > > Bill > > > > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] > > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > > To: [hidden email] > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > > > > Just a comment, > > > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > > > Fernando > > > > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as > >> follows: > >> > >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the > >> Cryptography package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL > >> implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on > >> logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine > >> transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't > >> succeding. It might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 > >> fallback. If I were you, I would go with curl. > >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition > >> to looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code > >> from scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty > >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. > >> Ever read Sun Tzu? > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] > >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck > >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM > >> To: Pharo Development > >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > >> > >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package > >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to > >> Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots > >> of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and > >> these methods were removed in Pharo. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Mariano > >> <ATT00001.txt> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and > conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of > securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, > confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, > available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Jan van de Sandt
2009/5/22 Jan van de Sandt <[hidden email]> Hello, Thanks for your help. I thought the same solution. Even with 2 simple methods extension I get Cryptography working for the postgresql driver. But because I just fixed the md5 problem, not all of them.
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Re: Port of Cryptography to Pharo
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
I think we should add MD5 and SHA1 of Cryptography to Pharo-core.
These are quite basic and often used hash functions. In the past I also copied the MD5 class over from the Cryptography package. Adrian On May 22, 2009, at 16:54 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > Why don;t you join forces and create a Cryptography package which work > for pharo and for you. > Mariano I still would love to know the method of integer that are > missing > > Stef > > On May 22, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Jan van de Sandt wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I faced the same problem with Cloudfork-AWS. This project required >> the Cryptography package for generating the signatures using SHA and >> for generating MD5 hash values. >> >> When I had problems loading the package in Pharo and I learned that >> the package was no longer maintained I copied the classes I required >> to a Cloudfork package. I needed the MD5, SHA1 and SHA256 classes. I >> renamed them to CFMD5, CFSHA1 and CFSHA256, I also prefixed all the >> methods in the required class extensions with cf. For example >> ThirtyTwoBitRegister>>cfBitShift: anInteger. You can use a simular >> approach for Glorp. >> >> Jan. >> >> PS: Another dependency of Cloudfork is a HTTP client. I'm now >> playing around with the CurlPlugin, this plugin works very well. >> Things like supporting https become real easy >> >> 2009/5/22 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> >> >> >> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Ramiro Diaz Trepat <[hidden email] >>> wrote: >> I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. >> It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres >> databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We >> will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the >> outside world in general. >> >> Yes. That's why I saw it. I am trying to make Glorp to work in >> Pharo, but as you know Glorp in Squeak only works with Postgres. And >> the native postgres driver requieres cryptography package when you >> use md5 :( >> >> Just for now, I disable md5 from my postgres and use "password" auth- >> method. With this, cryptography is not needed. However, this is not >> an option in a production enviorment. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Mariano >> >> >> It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. >> I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no >> vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. >> Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. >> Cheers >> >> r. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse >> Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. >> >> Stef >> >> On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. >>> AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we >>> should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. >>> >>> Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous >>> burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be >>> questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true >>> of OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers >>> widely known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who >>> will want OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- >>> grown solution. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero >>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >>> >>> >>> Just a comment, >>> >>> you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. >>> Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. >>> >>> Fernando >>> >>> >>> On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>>> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >>>> follows: >>>> >>>> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the >>>> Cryptography package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL >>>> implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on >>>> logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine >>>> transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't >>>> succeding. It might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 >>>> fallback. If I were you, I would go with curl. >>>> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition >>>> to looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code >>>> from scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >>>> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >>>> Ever read Sun Tzu? >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email] >>>> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >>>> To: Pharo Development >>>> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >>>> >>>> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >>>> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to >>>> Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots >>>> of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and >>>> these methods were removed in Pharo. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Mariano >>>> <ATT00001.txt> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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