Pricing

Does anyone have a comparison of pricing structure between major
Smalltalk dialects, i.e. ObjectStudio, VAST, VW, Dolphin and Smalltalk MT?

My partner and I are considering developing an application with
Smalltalk.  We were trying to figure out "how much it would cost us"
using product X versus product Y and were not able to find that
information. Some products have yearly licenses per developer, others
have runtime fees, VAR licenses, etc.

Anyone took the time to do such an analysis ?

P.S.  I am interested in $$ values since we are trying to estimate a
sales price for our product

Cincom Smalltalk (which is both VW and ObjectStudio) can be purchased a few
different ways.  For what you are discussing, two models are probably of
interest:

1) VAR
2) Server Based


The VAR model is described here:

http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com:8080/CincomSmalltalkWiki/How+does+VAR+Pricing+work%2C+anyway%3F

Server based is a per cpu model, where the prices start at $7000 per CPU
for a single server system, and range down in quantity


In article <[hidden email]>,
Benoit St-Jean  <[hidden email]> wrote:

--
James A. Robertson
Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
[hidden email]
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>

Benoit St-Jean wrote:
> Does anyone have a comparison of pricing structure between major
> Smalltalk dialects, i.e. ObjectStudio, VAST, VW, Dolphin and Smalltalk MT?

Yes, but not with ObjectStudio. This is just pricing, and personally I
think you need to choose the right product and consider pricing later,
because the products differ greatly in focus. You can evaluate all of
these before buying.


Dolphin Pro XP 5: A$700 per developer. Less $ for less functionality,
but application deployment requires Pro. Upgrades to new versions are
discounted.

http://www.object-arts.com/Products.htm


VW: A$1000/developer/year, plus 6% of smalltalk revenue, with the A$1000
being regarded as downpayment on the royalty (so, if you sell enough the
effective up-front is $0). Upgrades are automatic.
 
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com:8080/CincomSmalltalkWiki/How+does+VAR+Pricing+work%2C+anyway%3F


MT: A$1600 per developer + A$1800 for a site subscription to the extra
goodies. A$200 for a non-commercial (but complete) version, that you
can't use to sell product. Upgrades to new versions are discounted.

http://www.objectconnect.com/pricing_information.htm


VAST: A$1000/year for the developer toolbox at 'professional' level,
which includes VAST as well as masses of of other IBM goodies. Some
confusion over licensing but I think if you join PartnerWorld as a
commercial entity (which includes the toolbox subscription) you can use
10 copies of VAST. No royalty, but you can only use VAST for product
development for sale, not consulting or internal deployment or
productive work. Upgrades are automatic.

You should read the license conditions for yourself. It's not all that
clear.

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/toolbox/ordering.html

-------------------------
Antony Blakey
mailto:[hidden email]
Linkuistics Pty Ltd
Adelaide, South Australia

Antony Blakey <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:<[hidden email]>...

> VW: A$1000/developer/year, plus 6% of smalltalk revenue, with the A$1000
> being regarded as downpayment on the royalty (so, if you sell enough the
> effective up-front is $0). Upgrades are automatic.

One question: where are you getting the $1000/year figure?  I just
checked the Cincom link James posted, and the figure there is
$500/year.  This is the figure my previous company got quoted, as
well.  The only condition under which it was $1000/year is if you
bought ENVY, where the extra $500 was for ENVY.  Since ENVY is no
longer an option after VW 5i.2 (and did the VW 5i.2 ENVY ever actually
get released), StORE is free, and there are no longer add-on products,
that should leave things at $500/year.  Is the web page out of date?

-30-
Bob Ingria
As always, at a slight angle to the universe

Notice the "A" in front, for Australian dollar.  I think the Australian dollar is about 1/2 a USD now


In article <[hidden email]>,
Bob Ingria <[hidden email]> wrote:
>-30-
>Bob Ingria
>As always, at a slight angle to the universe


--
James A. Robertson
Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
[hidden email]
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>

Bob,

A$=Australian dollars.

Best Regards,

Andy Bower
Object Arts Ltd.
http://www.object-arts.com
---
Are you trying too hard?
http://www.object-arts.com/Relax.htm
---

Just imagine if I'd analysed in Italian Lira or Japanese Yen!

Anyone not in the US who also uses dollars expects A$ US$ NZ$ etc. to
avoid confusion. If I'd quoted in US$, but left off the 'US', then
someone seeing that I was in Australia (from my email address) would be
unsure whether I was using $A or $US.

I'm surprise *you* didn't pick this up Bob - surely you don't have a
homogeneous view of the world given your unusual geometric relationship
to the rest of us :)

The following is *not* a flame, just an observation:

One negative aspect of the web is a natural assumption everywhere that
local==global i.e. a homogeneous frame of reference, which is especially
a problem given the dominance of US culture, a highly inward-looking US
media, and reinforced on the net by '.com' being used for 'com.us'. I'm
occasionally guilty of that by e.g. assuming that everyone takes 'you
bastard' as a term of affection, which it often is in Australia. So from
now on I'm going to start all my emails with...

G'day you bastards,
                    I'm having a problem binding icons to my application...

Bob Ingria wrote:
-------------------------
Antony Blakey
mailto:[hidden email]
Linkuistics Pty Ltd
Adelaide, South Australia

"Antony Blakey" <[hidden email]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[hidden email]...
> Just imagine if I'd analysed in Italian Lira or Japanese Yen!

Of course that might be interesting for historical reasons (or just for fun)
to
analyze prices in Italian Lira, but since Jan. 2002 there is no Italian Lira
anymore.
The EU in it's majority has now a unified currency, the "Euro", which is btw
quite
simple to calculate in relation to the US$.

Kind regards
Ingo Blank

application...
>
> Bob Ingria wrote:
> > Antony Blakey <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:<[hidden email]>...