Problems installing beta3

OK, so I've spent a melancholy day moving sources from beta2 back to D4.  It
really was very sad and I *really really* hope that it'll turn out to have
been a total waste of effort.

I've not managed to retrofit everything, but it's clear that I'm not too
exposed anymore, so now's the time to take the plunge with beta3.

Just tried to activate the thing.  That worked OK-ish.  I find the various
numbers and keys I'm supposed to enter into different dialog boxes very
confusing.  Anyway it worked (for once my luck was in!) and gave me an
activation key (if that's the right word).

I think there's something wrong on the "congratulations" screen.  It states
that I'm not allowed to use Dolphin concurrently on more than one machine.
That has to be a mistake -- I run Dolphin concurrently on more than one
machine as often as not (well, almost).  How else am I supposed to test
networking code, to do A-B comparisons etc ?  What the license forbids (as I
remember it) is more than one concurrent *user*.

Unlocked the beta.  It went into its usual routine with lots of progress
bars.  Then failed with a walkback:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
18:07:04, 02 April 2002: Unhandled exception - a Win32Error('The process
cannot access the file because it is being used by another process. (16r20:
The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another
process.)')

KernelLibrary(ExternalLibrary)>>systemError
File class>>delete:
SourceManager>>basicCompressSources:
[] in SourceManager>>compressSourcesWith:
[] in ProgressDialog>>forkOperation
ExceptionHandler(ExceptionHandlerAbstract)>>markAndTry
[] in ExceptionHandler(ExceptionHandlerAbstract)>>try:
BlockClosure>>ifCurtailed:
BlockClosure>>ensure:
ExceptionHandler(ExceptionHandlerAbstract)>>try:
BlockClosure>>on:do:
[] in BlockClosure>>newProcess
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

I'm fairly sure that the file was not in use by another process, since I
don't normally leave *anything* in the default location for longer than it
takes to do the first step of the install.

Hey ho.  Rebooted.  As Windows was closing down I got a "do you want to save
the image" prompt from some Dolphin that was leftover from something.  That
could have caused the W32 error, but it's still strange because I've been
using D4 since I last rebooted (I *think*), and even if not then no instance
should have been messing with the default .SML file since, as I've said, I
always move it immediately after installation.

Anyway rebooting fixed it.  I started from "fresh install" again.  Worked
fine, and came up in the usual way.  My next step -- always -- is to save
the image to somewhere else (and then back it up).  BTW, when I say "next"
step, I mean exactly that: I don't even reshuffle the windows, just go
straight to the "save image as" option.  Doing so came up with another
walkback.  I can't find a .errors file so I can't paste it here, but
transcribing from the debugger:

DevelopmentSessionManager>>saveImageTo: has been called with the correct
destination stem.

File>>copy:to: has been called with the correct destination filename (the
.SML file) and a correct *relative* source file name, i.e.
'Professional.sml'.

However, doing:
     File workingDirectory
answers 'C:\Program Files\Dolphin Smalltalk 5.0\' (The installation
directory I happen to have chosen) and 'Professional.sml', is actually
somewhere under C:\Documents and Settings\

    -- chris

Further problems.

I realised I'd messed up the process of building myself a set of clean
images with proper intermediate backup points, so I went back to a "fresh
install" (having deleted the files under "my documents").

First I get a dialog "Windows is preparing to install..." (it doesn't hang
around long enough to get the exact wording), then I get a progress dialog:

    Dolphin Smalltalk Professional 5.0 (Beta3)

    Please wait while Windows configures Dolphin Smalltalk
    Professional 5.0 (Beta3)

Which runs for a couple of seconds.

Then I get a prompt:

    Dolphin Smalltalk Professional 5.0 (Beta3)

    The feature you are trying to use is on a
    network resource that is unavailable.

    Click OK to try again, or enter an alternate path to a
    folder containing the installation package 'Dolphin
    Smalltalk Professional 5.0 (Beta3).msi' in the box
    below.

and in the box below I see I can "Use feature from:"

    C\WINNT\TEMP\_isE5\

which somehow doesn't seem to be quite what I'm looking for.

So, I hit <cancel> and get an error dialog:

    Error 1706. No valid source could be found for product
    Dolphin Smalltalk Professional 5.0 (Beta3).    The
    Windows installer cannot continue.

I OK that, (since there's no alternative) and then the whole bloody thing
starts again from the top.  The loop can only be interrupted by killing
Dolphin from the taskbar.

Incidentally, allowing it to "browse" for the missing MSI shows that it's
starting out in a "scripts" folder (which, possibly coincidentally) was
where I'd browsed to to pick up the script I'd executed on an earlier run of
D5.   But that was a different instance of Dolphin.

Also there is no file anywhere on this box matching Dolphin*.msi except for
the one left over from the D4 installation.  Also there is now a hidden
folder at the root of my C drive called Config.Msi which I'm sure wasn't
there yesterday.

Somehow I feel your expensive new installer and I are not going to be
friends... ;-)

    -- chris

I've just started getting the same as Chris, with the following slight
differences...

> So, I hit <cancel> and get an error dialog:
>
>     Error 1706. No valid source could be found for product
>     Dolphin Smalltalk Professional 5.0 (Beta3).    The
>     Windows installer cannot continue.
>
> I OK that, (since there's no alternative) and then the whole bloody thing
> starts again from the top.  The loop can only be interrupted by killing
> Dolphin from the taskbar.

If I hit cancel twice then it seems to break out of the loop and continues
as expected.

> Incidentally, allowing it to "browse" for the missing MSI shows that it's
> starting out in a "scripts" folder (which, possibly coincidentally) was
> where I'd browsed to to pick up the script I'd executed on an earlier run
of
> D5.   But that was a different instance of Dolphin.

My error message is pointing at a temporary folder. I have very recently
cleared my IE5 cache (which may have cleared out the temporary files?) and I
didn't see the error before doing so.

This error sequence now pops up when I start the development environment and
also when I run deployed applications.

Ian

I forgot to mention.  It'd be slightly easier to use the webpage if the
machine ID in the activation dialog  were cut-and-paste-able.

    -- chris

Ian,
> > So, I hit <cancel> and get an error dialog:
> >
> >     Error 1706. No valid source could be found for product
> >     Dolphin Smalltalk Professional 5.0 (Beta3).    The
> >     Windows installer cannot continue.
> >
> > I OK that, (since there's no alternative) and then the whole bloody
thing
> > starts again from the top.  The loop can only be interrupted by killing
> > Dolphin from the taskbar.
>
> If I hit cancel twice then it seems to break out of the loop and continues
> as expected.

Do you mean you hit cancel twice real fast before the dialog goes away ? Or
just that it only goes around the loop a couple of times before
spontaneously correcting itself.

> > Incidentally, allowing it to "browse" for the missing MSI shows that
it's
> > starting out in a "scripts" folder (which, possibly coincidentally) was
> > where I'd browsed to to pick up the script I'd executed on an earlier
run
> of
> > D5.   But that was a different instance of Dolphin.
>
> My error message is pointing at a temporary folder. I have very recently
> cleared my IE5 cache (which may have cleared out the temporary files?) and
I
> didn't see the error before doing so.

I didn't knowingly clear out any temp files on this machine, but who knows
what IE/Windows were doing in the background.

> Ian

    -- chris

P.S.  I'm starting to think that it sometime does just break out of the loop
of it's own accord.  I've just tried it again, and it worked after a few
times around.  Oddly it seems to think that the current image is in my
%HOME% directory (nothing to do with the Windows "my documents" or whatever,
just a hangover from my UNIX days).  It has never at any point been asked to
do *anything* with that directory.  Odd.

    -- chris

[I'm sorry about all these replies to myself.  Thinking of them as post
scripts might help ;-]

Now it's getting really wierd!  I've found that cancelling enough times will
eventually break out of the loop, so I did so.  After managing (at last) to
save the initial clean image in the place I wanted it to go, I restarted
Dolphin (going around the loop a few times more), and then did the classic
first evaluation in any new version of Dolphin, i.e:

    Sound clearRegistry.

And damnme if it didn't go into its installer routine again!  Cancelled that
until it died, evaluated the above again (under the debugger) and it worked
fine.  Still works fine now, apparently.

I'll keep playing, more later.

    -- chris

Chris,

> Do you mean you hit cancel twice real fast before the dialog goes away ?
Or
> just that it only goes around the loop a couple of times before
> spontaneously correcting itself.

The first thing I see is a progress dialog with the caption "preparing to
install" and a cancel button. If I hit this button before the progress bar
completes (~2 secs) then the dialog disappears but immediately re-appears
and starts again. Hitting cancel again then starts up Dolphin normally -
albeit at the "Image will expire" warning.

 From your other post ...

>     Sound clearRegistry.
>
> And damnme if it didn't go into its installer routine again!

You can also get back into the installer loop when you install packages,
although cancelling as above still gets you out of it.

Ian

Chris,

> Do you mean you hit cancel twice real fast before the dialog goes away ?
Or
> just that it only goes around the loop a couple of times before
> spontaneously correcting itself.

The first thing I see is a progress dialog with the caption "preparing to
install" and a cancel button. If I hit this button before the progress bar
completes (~2 secs) then the dialog disappears but immediately re-appears
and starts again. Hitting cancel again then starts up Dolphin normally -
albeit at the "Image will expire" warning.

>From your other post ...

>     Sound clearRegistry.
>
> And damnme if it didn't go into its installer routine again!

You can also get back into the installer loop when you install packages,
although cancelling as above still gets you out of it.

Ian

Andy/Blair,

> My error message is pointing at a temporary folder. I have very recently
> cleared my IE5 cache (which may have cleared out the temporary files?) and
I
> didn't see the error before doing so.

Sorry, red herring...

I've worked out what the problem is.  After the install of Beta3 a new
folder, named "Object Arts" appeared in my working folder. I like to keep
things tidy so, as it only contained a couple of samples, I deleted it. What
was then happening of course was that the "helpful" MSI noticed I had
deleted part of the installation and was trying to put it back.

Ian

Ian,

> > My error message is pointing at a temporary folder. I have very recently
> > cleared my IE5 cache (which may have cleared out the temporary files?)
and
> I
> > didn't see the error before doing so.
>
> Sorry, red herring...
>
> I've worked out what the problem is.  After the install of Beta3 a new
> folder, named "Object Arts" appeared in my working folder. I like to keep
> things tidy so, as it only contained a couple of samples, I deleted it.
What
> was then happening of course was that the "helpful" MSI noticed I had
> deleted part of the installation and was trying to put it back.

Thanks. #765. Should now be fixed, I've put those samples into a "feature"
that is marked as not being required so MSI won't attempt to reinstall them.
I think it's fair that MSI should try and repair installation files that are
deleted under the Program Files tree but not in a user's My Documents tree,
don't you?

Best Regards,

Andy Bower
Object Arts Ltd.
http://www.object-arts.com
---
Are you trying too hard?
http://www.object-arts.com/Relax.htm
---

Chris Uppal wrote:
> I forgot to mention.  It'd be slightly easier to use the webpage if the
> machine ID in the activation dialog  were cut-and-paste-able.

Or even better if the URL visited by the activation button included the
machine id as a query parameter which was therefore already entered on
the form.

[hidden email] wrote:
> Chris Uppal wrote:
>
>> I forgot to mention.  It'd be slightly easier to use the webpage if the
>> machine ID in the activation dialog  were cut-and-paste-able.
>
>
> Or even better if the URL visited by the activation button included the
> machine id as a query parameter which was therefore already entered on
> the form.

[hidden email]! - Stupid mozilla (or stupid me :/).

I have not specific advice to offer, except that when we went to .msi
installation (we are using Installsheild Express 3.0), we had problems like
this.  The new msi installer wants to automatically repair things.  We found
two sources of the problem:

1) If you use the single file install, and it extracts into a temp
directory, then needs to reboot at the end, it is possible the files aren'
there on reboot.  This causes "repair" to kick in, and the install sort of
starts over.

2) Our users installed out beta, then renamed the install directory.  Under
certain circumstances (how we set up Installsheild, I think), this caused
repair to kick in.

HTH a little - at least some of the symptoms see the same.

jlo

Hello all,

> I have not specific advice to offer, except that when we went to .msi
> installation (we are using Installsheild Express 3.0), we had problems
like
> this.  The new msi installer wants to automatically repair things.  We
found
> two sources of the problem:
>
> 1) If you use the single file install, and it extracts into a temp
> directory, then needs to reboot at the end, it is possible the files aren'
> there on reboot.  This causes "repair" to kick in, and the install sort of
> starts over.
>
> 2) Our users installed out beta, then renamed the install directory.
Under
> certain circumstances (how we set up Installsheild, I think), this caused
> repair to kick in.
>
> HTH a little - at least some of the symptoms see the same.

It's not quite time to coin the term "MSI hell", but, I suspect the days are
not far off.  MS sent a relational database (and not a very consistent or
well designed one) to do an object serializer's job, and the thing just
never recovered.  When OA switched, I took a very serious look, and finally
aborted for fear of not being able to control it.  The complexity only gets
worse as one adds features, so it's no wonder the tools are so expensive.

My copy of Wise (which I bought on Andy and Blair's recommendation) is still
going strong, and is just as easy to use as ever.

Have a good one,

Bill

---
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

"Chris Uppal" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> [I'm sorry about all these replies to myself.  Thinking of them as post
> scripts might help ;-]
>
> Now it's getting really wierd!  I've found that cancelling enough times
will
> eventually break out of the loop, so I did so.  After managing (at last)
to
> save the initial clean image in the place I wanted it to go, I restarted
> Dolphin (going around the loop a few times more), and then did the classic
> first evaluation in any new version of Dolphin, i.e:
>
>     Sound clearRegistry.
>
> And damnme if it didn't go into its installer routine again!  ....

Probably attempting to repair the installation (for whatever reason) on
first reference to the compiler.

Regards

Blair