Public Comment Invited

Dear Friends,

As some may know, Store has "Management Tables" and a system whereby an "Administrator" can provide, if used with the OwnerOwershipPolicy, allows "Granting" Read and Publish (or none) rights to Bundles and Packages.

We are considering if we should remove the feature or replace it with something else... So....

First, does anyone use this?
        And if so, do you use it "Plain Out Of The Box"?
                And if NOT, what kind of extensions have you implemented?

If you have looked at this feature and have decided not to use it, Why?

What features would you like to see in a "new" Administration system?

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?




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Sames, for what it's worth we don't use it and don't plan to use it. Last thing I want is discouraging someone from contributing once they have access to the repository internally, but for public stores that's a whole other story.

Sent from my iPhone

On 2011-03-03, at 17:55, "Samuel S. Shuster" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Sames,

We have it never installed and recommended to all of our customers not to
use it. Thus from my viewpoint it could go away.

Georg

PS: I remember well the Envy times where many projects implemented a button
"Let me come that person whom I need to be to perform the action I need to
do".

Georg Heeg eK, Dortmund und Köthen, HR Dortmund A 12812
Wallstraße 22, 06366 Köthen
Tel. +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im
Auftrag von Samuel S. Shuster
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. März 2011 23:52
An: List VWDEV; VWNC List NC
Betreff: Public Comment Invited


Dear Friends,

As some may know, Store has "Management Tables" and a system whereby an
"Administrator" can provide, if used with the OwnerOwershipPolicy, allows
"Granting" Read and Publish (or none) rights to Bundles and Packages.

We are considering if we should remove the feature or replace it with
something else... So....

First, does anyone use this?
        And if so, do you use it "Plain Out Of The Box"?
                And if NOT, what kind of extensions have you implemented?

If you have looked at this feature and have decided not to use it, Why?

What features would you like to see in a "new" Administration system?

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?






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Hello Samuel,

we dont use it.

Samuel S. Shuster wrote:

Dear Friends,

As some may know, Store has "Management Tables" and a system whereby an "Administrator" can provide, if used with the OwnerOwershipPolicy, allows "Granting" Read and Publish (or none) rights to Bundles and Packages.

We are considering if we should remove the feature or replace it with something else... So....

First, does anyone use this? 
	And if so, do you use it "Plain Out Of The Box"?
		And if NOT, what kind of extensions have you implemented?

If you have looked at this feature and have decided not to use it, Why?

What features would you like to see in a "new" Administration system?

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?






  

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Hi,

we at Soops don't use it either and are not planning to. The only place
where caution should be taken is with store garbage collection, but that
uses a different method anyway.

Cham

On 3/3/2011 11:52 PM, Samuel S. Shuster wrote:
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Hi Samuel,

We don't use this. Everyone has access to everything.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: donderdag 3 maart 2011 23:52
To: List VWDEV; VWNC List NC
Subject: Public Comment Invited


Dear Friends,

As some may know, Store has "Management Tables" and a system whereby an "Administrator" can provide, if used with the OwnerOwershipPolicy, allows "Granting" Read and Publish (or none) rights to Bundles and Packages.

We are considering if we should remove the feature or replace it with something else... So....

First, does anyone use this?
        And if so, do you use it "Plain Out Of The Box"?
                And if NOT, what kind of extensions have you implemented?

If you have looked at this feature and have decided not to use it, Why?

What features would you like to see in a "new" Administration system?

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?





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We do not use it at GeoKnowledge. It can go.

Runar Jordahl
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I'm not sure it's needed, but for a different reason than the one Georg used below.  On the projects I've seen, the Store accounts usually have well known user id's and passwords, so it's easy to "become" someone else simply by saving the login info in your connection profiles (and saving that info out to the repositories.xml file)


On Mar 4, 2011, at 2:34 AM, Georg Heeg wrote:

James Robertson
http://www.jarober.com
[hidden email]




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Hi,

We are planning to institute a regime using the policies.

Our team is fairly large and we need to maintain order.

Will advise of any extensions we implement.

Best Regards,

Kirk Blackburn
Qwest Integrator Program

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:52 PM
To: List VWDEV; VWNC List NC
Subject: Public Comment Invited


Dear Friends,

As some may know, Store has "Management Tables" and a system whereby an "Administrator" can provide, if used with the OwnerOwershipPolicy, allows "Granting" Read and Publish (or none) rights to Bundles and Packages.

We are considering if we should remove the feature or replace it with something else... So....

First, does anyone use this?
        And if so, do you use it "Plain Out Of The Box"?
                And if NOT, what kind of extensions have you implemented?

If you have looked at this feature and have decided not to use it, Why?

What features would you like to see in a "new" Administration system?

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?





This communication is the property of Qwest and may contain confidential or
privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication
in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
all copies of the communication and any attachments.

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I see no benefit from a code ownership policy.

The worst part of ENVY was the ownership and publishing rules. To merge changes from multiple developers to create a Config Map build you ended up switching users dozens of times. There was never any benefit from it. It fostered the notion that employees of a company can own and be a gatekeeper to changes to code (instead of making them accountable for changes to company-owned code). Tools were written to automate the switching. Union shops may appreciate the ownership rules, but the rules slowed the rate that code evolved.

This is why...

Smalltalk was different from other languages by the rate at which application code could safely evolve. Early adopters of Smalltalk years ago tended to burden Smalltalk development with process restrictions and change management. The precautions that were useful for languages with a higher cost of change where misapplied to Smalltalk. A Smalltalk developer could implement a superior solution faster than a committee could agree on a design. ENVY ownership rules negatively influenced the development culture and were a part of why Smalltalk failed to stand out as a superior programming language.

What would I like to see?

The tools we needed for VW have already been developed in-house and have been shared as the "Release Assistant" as part of GemKit in the Cincom Repository (sorry the shared version is a bit old now). There was no ownership policy or code hiding to restrict us from solving the problem ourselves. There was no need to wait for Cincom to do it. If you want to know what features customers want then start by looking at what they've done and then consider how you could do better.

Paul Baumann





On 2011-03-03, at 17:55, "Samuel S. Shuster" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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> PS: I remember well the Envy times where many projects implemented a
> button "Let me come that person whom I need to be to perform the
> action I need to do".

Indeed. A much better approach is to ensure uses can't be spoofed and then provide tools to filter the list of artifacts shown based on user. That way anyone can publish, integrate, build etc. But if it is know that only the versions publish or blessed done by "the integrator" should be used for something it is just a matter of only viewing those.

Joerg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Georg Heeg
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:34 PM
To: 'Samuel S. Shuster'; 'List VWDEV'; 'VWNC List NC'
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Public Comment Invited

Sames,

We have it never installed and recommended to all of our customers not to
use it. Thus from my viewpoint it could go away.

Georg

PS: I remember well the Envy times where many projects implemented a button
"Let me come that person whom I need to be to perform the action I need to
do".

Georg Heeg eK, Dortmund und Köthen, HR Dortmund A 12812
Wallstraße 22, 06366 Köthen
Tel. +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im
Auftrag von Samuel S. Shuster
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. März 2011 23:52
An: List VWDEV; VWNC List NC
Betreff: Public Comment Invited


Dear Friends,

As some may know, Store has "Management Tables" and a system whereby an
"Administrator" can provide, if used with the OwnerOwershipPolicy, allows
"Granting" Read and Publish (or none) rights to Bundles and Packages.

We are considering if we should remove the feature or replace it with
something else... So....

First, does anyone use this?
        And if so, do you use it "Plain Out Of The Box"?
                And if NOT, what kind of extensions have you implemented?

If you have looked at this feature and have decided not to use it, Why?

What features would you like to see in a "new" Administration system?

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?






_______________________________________________
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