[Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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[Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
 
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Hi,
some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know as one of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? Thank you for your opinions in advance. _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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> some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know as one
> of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. Certainly interesting, I am following this project for quite a while now. > Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? Better than what? Certainly depends on what you want to do exactly. The library is very client-side and JavaScript heavy. I don't know, if Seaside can help much as a server. The UI stuff looks very impressive. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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Hi,
I would advise to check http://extjs.com/ to see another great JS library. They have even Java code (GWT) to generate Javascript which will display UI. So you can follow that and recode in Smalltalk. I like ExtJS much more than YUI (yahoo library). And what I see at SproutCore is completely not impressive UI wise. Even if I express my respect to Apple-ish design it still looks ugly. just my 2 cents -Dmitry. Lukas Renggli wrote: >> some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know as one >> of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. > > Certainly interesting, I am following this project for quite a while now. > >> Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? > > Better than what? Certainly depends on what you want to do exactly. > > The library is very client-side and JavaScript heavy. I don't know, if > Seaside can help much as a server. The UI stuff looks very impressive. > > Lukas > seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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ExtJS is GPL.
Cheers Philippe 2008/6/25 Dmitry Dorofeev <[hidden email]>: > Hi, > > I would advise to check http://extjs.com/ to see another great JS library. > > They have even Java code (GWT) to generate Javascript which will display UI. > So you can follow that and recode in Smalltalk. > > I like ExtJS much more than YUI (yahoo library). And what I see at > SproutCore is > completely not impressive UI wise. Even if I express my respect to Apple-ish > design it still > looks ugly. > > just my 2 cents > > -Dmitry. > > Lukas Renggli wrote: >>> >>> some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know as >>> one >>> of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. >> >> Certainly interesting, I am following this project for quite a while now. >> >>> Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? >> >> Better than what? Certainly depends on what you want to do exactly. >> >> The library is very client-side and JavaScript heavy. I don't know, if >> Seaside can help much as a server. The UI stuff looks very impressive. >> >> Lukas >> > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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In reply to this post by Chun, Sungjin
23.06.2008, в 15:25, S.J.Chun написал(а): > Hi, > > some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know > as one > of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. > > Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? Demos works ok in Safari, but incorrectly in IE 7 and Opera for me. Do you know if it should work correctly on windows?_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall
Philippe Marschall wrote: > ExtJS is GPL. And JavaScript files are always sent to the client, so source code is provided as required by GPL. I think you don't need to provide your server side source just because UI JavaScript library is GPL. Am I wrong ? -Dmitry. > > Cheers > Philippe > > > 2008/6/25 Dmitry Dorofeev <[hidden email]>: >> Hi, >> >> I would advise to check http://extjs.com/ to see another great JS library. >> >> They have even Java code (GWT) to generate Javascript which will display UI. >> So you can follow that and recode in Smalltalk. >> >> I like ExtJS much more than YUI (yahoo library). And what I see at >> SproutCore is >> completely not impressive UI wise. Even if I express my respect to Apple-ish >> design it still >> looks ugly. >> >> just my 2 cents >> >> -Dmitry. >> >> Lukas Renggli wrote: >>>> some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know as >>>> one >>>> of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. >>> Certainly interesting, I am following this project for quite a while now. >>> >>>> Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? >>> Better than what? Certainly depends on what you want to do exactly. >>> >>> The library is very client-side and JavaScript heavy. I don't know, if >>> Seaside can help much as a server. The UI stuff looks very impressive. >>> >>> Lukas >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> -- С уважением, Дмитрий Дорофеев, ООО "ЯСП", Генеральный директор +7 812 567 1076 _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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>>>>> "Dmitry" == Dmitry Dorofeev <[hidden email]> writes:
Dmitry> And JavaScript files are always sent to the client, so source code is Dmitry> provided as required by GPL. I think you don't need to provide your Dmitry> server side source just because UI JavaScript library is GPL. Dmitry> Am I wrong ? Some would argue that you are wrong. If you are distributing GPL code as a substantial part of your own product, the GPL license must be applied to your code as well. If it was only LGPL, you might have a better chance, unless you're also "deriving" from it, in which case, the derivation is subject to the LGPL. Welcome to the world of viral licenses. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Dmitry" == Dmitry Dorofeev <[hidden email]> writes: > > Dmitry> And JavaScript files are always sent to the client, so source code is > Dmitry> provided as required by GPL. I think you don't need to provide your > Dmitry> server side source just because UI JavaScript library is GPL. > > Dmitry> Am I wrong ? > > Some would argue that you are wrong. If you are distributing GPL code as a > substantial part of your own product, the GPL license must be applied to your > code as well. If it was only LGPL, you might have a better chance, unless > you're also "deriving" from it, in which case, the derivation is subject > to the LGPL. > > Welcome to the world of viral licenses. Pretty sad world I would say. It may end up with providing source code for my server's network card driver, as it substantial part of my own pro(duct|ject) supplied to the end user. 'Ext' was LGPL before version 2.x, but citing from their site: We considered once again releasing under straight LGPL but it was not an option as a business. We tried that with version 1.0 and found out quickly that it enabled others (e.g. large commercial entities) to take our work, wrap it up and sell it as their own. With no mention of us at all. We, as a business with a full time team of talented developers, can not exist under those circumstances. We would quickly become diluted and competing with ourselves. -Dmitry. _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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In reply to this post by Dmitry Dorofeev
On Jun 25, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Dmitry Dorofeev wrote: > > > Philippe Marschall wrote: >> ExtJS is GPL. > > And JavaScript files are always sent to the client, so source code > is provided as required by GPL. > I think you don't need to provide your server side source just > because UI JavaScript library is GPL. > > Am I wrong ? Ask the copyright holders. _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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In reply to this post by Dmitry Dorofeev
>>>>> "Dmitry" == Dmitry Dorofeev <[hidden email]> writes:
Dmitry> We considered once again releasing under straight LGPL but it was not Dmitry> an option as a business. We tried that with version 1.0 and found out Dmitry> quickly that it enabled others (e.g. large commercial entities) to Dmitry> take our work, wrap it up and sell it as their own. With no mention of Dmitry> us at all. We, as a business with a full time team of talented Dmitry> developers, can not exist under those circumstances. We would quickly Dmitry> become diluted and competing with ourselves. Oddly enough, if all they wanted was credit, a BSD license with an advertising clause would have in fact done precisely that. Oh, the confusion! -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Dmitry" == Dmitry Dorofeev <[hidden email]> writes: > > Dmitry> We considered once again releasing under straight LGPL but > it was not > Dmitry> an option as a business. We tried that with version 1.0 and > found out > Dmitry> quickly that it enabled others (e.g. large commercial > entities) to > Dmitry> take our work, wrap it up and sell it as their own. With no > mention of > Dmitry> us at all. We, as a business with a full time team of talented > Dmitry> developers, can not exist under those circumstances. We > would quickly > Dmitry> become diluted and competing with ourselves. > > Oddly enough, if all they wanted was credit, a BSD license with > an advertising clause would have in fact done precisely that. I think the 'sell it as their own' might be a big part of that equation. _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Allen <[hidden email]> writes:
Sean> On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >> Oddly enough, if all they wanted was credit, a BSD license with >> an advertising clause would have in fact done precisely that. Sean> I think the 'sell it as their own' might be a big part of that equation. Well, if you're giving it away as open source, someone else selling it can't be part of the equation. So the only part you might object to is "their own", which would be handled with an advertising clause. I often take open source as part of my commercial solutions. I respect any advertising clauses, but I'm certainly not going to be going out of my way to not make money incorporating the work of others into my own work... that's the whole *point* of open source: to not start over at ground zero for each new task. Go read the original RMS manifestos... that's the point he was trying to make, although he decided to do it by ensuring that there was no such thing as proprietary code. I take a different tactic... that the core technologies should be open, but each company can build their own company-specific items on top of that. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [Q] Could SproutCore be another solution for Seaside?
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On Jun 25, 2008, at 3:19 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Allen <[hidden email]> writes: > > Sean> On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>> Oddly enough, if all they wanted was credit, a BSD license with >>> an advertising clause would have in fact done precisely that. > > Sean> I think the 'sell it as their own' might be a big part of that > equation. > > Well, if you're giving it away as open source, someone else selling > it can't be part of the equation. So the only part you might object > to is "their own", which would be handled with an advertising clause. > > I often take open source as part of my commercial solutions. I > respect any > advertising clauses, but I'm certainly not going to be going out of > my way to > not make money incorporating the work of others into my own work... > that's the > whole *point* of open source: to not start over at ground zero for > each new > task. Go read the original RMS manifestos... that's the point he > was trying > to make, although he decided to do it by ensuring that there was no > such thing > as proprietary code. I take a different tactic... that the core > technologies > should be open, but each company can build their own company- > specific items on > top of that. I would read 'sell it as their own' to mean they can do what Next did with BSD. Tuck it away in a fortified little world with just an attribution. I read that as, if we are going to compete people using our code, we want all the improvements as well. And for that, you need the GPL. With BSD I could take their library as a base, make some bug fixes and not kick it back. That is what I read from the 'sell it as their own'. Anyway, license talk is never fun. _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
I've only glanced, but it looks like that the most useful way to use
it with Smalltalk objects would be to write an Object Broker that conforms to their REST API. http://github.com/sproutit/sproutcore/wikis/using-the-built-in-rest-api Then you are in a client/server model, so Gemstone or Magma could make a nice backend for that. - Wilkes On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: >> some of you already heard about SproutCore framework. And it's know as one >> of the main framework used by apple for their new mobileme site. > > Certainly interesting, I am following this project for quite a while now. > >> Could this framework be a better javascript/UI solution for Seaside? > > Better than what? Certainly depends on what you want to do exactly. > > The library is very client-side and JavaScript heavy. I don't know, if > Seaside can help much as a server. The UI stuff looks very impressive. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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