RDBMS or ODBMS?

Hi all,

    I wanted to share this question because it has a very big impact on the
design of a system.

    What do you use to solve the persinstence problem on your systems?

    What alternatives a developer has to solve this in his/her designs?

    Do you use Relational databases engines (RDBMS) or object-oriented ones
(ODBMS)? why?

    What vendors/products are for Dolphin ST?

    Supose you have to develop a multi user system with transactional
requeriments.

    best regards,

Seb

Seb,

>     Do you use Relational databases engines (RDBMS) or object-oriented
ones
> (ODBMS)? why?

If the data is reasonable to explain to an RDBMS, and if I suspect I'd later
be glad I used one (queries etc.) then that's what I'll use.  I also
sometimes use hybrids: let an RDB do the parts that it does well (indexing
demographics, etc.) and store the complicated stuff as STB in files or even
blob fields.

Good luck with your project!

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

"Smalltalkiano" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:beftg5$4j9hc$[hidden email]...
...
>     I wanted to share this question because it has a very big impact on
the
> design of a system.
>     What do you use to solve the persinstence problem on your systems?
>     What alternatives a developer has to solve this in his/her designs?
>     Do you use Relational databases engines (RDBMS) or object-oriented
ones
> (ODBMS)? why?
...

I think I use the best of both worlds.  I use ReStore (
http://www.solutionsoft.co.uk/restore/ ) for my database object persistence
needs.  It is a mapping framework.  Essentially you can use Smalltalk blocks
to query objects from a relational database (with some small limitations).
It is almost seamless.  I like relational databases because I am familiar
with them, using ReStore I can target MS Access, MS SQL Server or Oracle,
and more...  I am not locked into a database vendor.  The scalability is
nice, I could go from MS Access to SQL Server without changing any code (in
theory, I have not had to do this yet).  Object databases seem too
proprietary at the moment.  Also many of my clients are already running
Oracle or SQL Server and routinely use MS Access so it is easier for them to
support it as well.

If I was developing a propriety program I might choose to use an ODBMS if it
had specific benefits for the project.  But for general purpose database
persistence I really like ReStore.  It is easy to use, and the support has
been excellent.

The only commercial object database I am aware of for Dolphin is OmniBase
(
http://www.gorisek.com/homepage/WOB-bJxUtweqdXV759mm1CHyrEyw-1-9.html?action=omnibase )
.  It is probably worth looking at.  I use it indirectly via the STS source
management system I use, but I have not used it in any projects.  I have no
idea if something like Gemstone could easily be used with Dolphin.  There is
a free object relational mapper called Glorp ( http://www.glorp.org/ ) that
seems to be available for Dolphin.  I am not sure how current it is.  I
don't actually know anyone using it.  I would be interested to hear from any
one who does.

Chris

You make think !!

    8:)




"Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> escribió en el mensaje
news:begbb9$4mfcp$[hidden email]...
> Seb,
>
> >     Do you use Relational databases engines (RDBMS) or object-oriented
> ones
> > (ODBMS)? why?
>
> If the data is reasonable to explain to an RDBMS, and if I suspect I'd
later
> be glad I used one (queries etc.) then that's what I'll use.  I also
> sometimes use hybrids: let an RDB do the parts that it does well (indexing
> demographics, etc.) and store the complicated stuff as STB in files or
even

Chris,

    the fact is that I love the ODBMS features, but I'm afraid that it's a
too young technology from my point of view.

    It's a pity because using another technology will introduce restrictions
on my design model.

    Right now I'm 'dreaming' with an rasonable-priced ObjectBase-Engine as
strong and reliable as much as any RDBMS you can find today.

    best regards,

Seb


"Christopher J. Demers" <[hidden email]> escribió en el
mensaje news:bei5l0$5h8oc$[hidden email]... persistence
> needs.  It is a mapping framework.  Essentially you can use Smalltalk
blocks
> to query objects from a relational database (with some small limitations).
> It is almost seamless.  I like relational databases because I am familiar
> with them, using ReStore I can target MS Access, MS SQL Server or Oracle,
> and more...  I am not locked into a database vendor.  The scalability is
> nice, I could go from MS Access to SQL Server without changing any code
(in
> theory, I have not had to do this yet).  Object databases seem too
> proprietary at the moment.  Also many of my clients are already running
> Oracle or SQL Server and routinely use MS Access so it is easier for them
to
> support it as well.
>
> If I was developing a propriety program I might choose to use an ODBMS if
it
> had specific benefits for the project.  But for general purpose database
> persistence I really like ReStore.  It is easy to use, and the support has
> been excellent.
>
> The only commercial object database I am aware of for Dolphin is OmniBase
> (
>
http://www.gorisek.com/homepage/WOB-bJxUtweqdXV759mm1CHyrEyw-1-9.html?action
=omnibase )
> .  It is probably worth looking at.  I use it indirectly via the STS
source
> management system I use, but I have not used it in any projects.  I have
no
> idea if something like Gemstone could easily be used with Dolphin.  There
is
> a free object relational mapper called Glorp ( http://www.glorp.org/ )
that
> seems to be available for Dolphin.  I am not sure how current it is.  I
> don't actually know anyone using it.  I would be interested to hear from
any
> one who does.
>
> Chris
>
>

At risk of getting more posts from troll [hidden email] using my
name...

"Smalltalkiano" <[hidden email]> wrote
>     Do you use Relational databases engines (RDBMS) or object-oriented
ones
> (ODBMS)? why?

In my opinion Relational Databases consist of a Database engine and a
Relational macro language (SQL) interpreter, making it more of an
application than a database.  The best Relational Applications use an Object
Database.

A good object database can support transaction reliability on multiple disks
which can greatly reduce backup and restore needs.

>     What vendors/products are for Dolphin ST?

I'll have some source code available in the future which will bypass the
Windows / Dolphin limitation of accessing 2Gb maximum file sizes.  That
limit is annoying in these days of 200+ gig disks.

>   Supose you have to develop a multi user system with transactional
> requeriments.

You would have to build on a multiuser interface layer which would be a
dictionary of user, password, and access permissions, a set of commands
available to each permission code, and a simple filter to enforce the
permissions.  This filter should record the user's identification in an
modification history at either the table or object level to identify a user
involved in unwanted behavior.

With built-in transaction support there is nothing extra needed but the
application to process the data and its GUI.

Hope that helps,
Kirk Fraser