RE: VW SeasideForSwazoo bundle

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Milan Čermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> To: Petr Stepanek
> Subject: [Fwd: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle]
>
>
>
> -------- Původní zpráva --------
> Předmět: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> Datum: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:39:32 -0000
> Od: Bany, Michel <[hidden email]>
> Komu: Milan Cermák <[hidden email]>
>
> This code was automatically ported from Squeak.
>
> Apparently, the count i-var is a value holder for a number, this needs
> to be converted to a String.
> #displayString does exactly that.
>
> We did not use #asString for this conversion to String because VW does
> not have Object>>asString
> and has Object>>displayString.
>
> Please note that the use of #displayString rather than #asString for
> converting objects to String
> is the result of an agreement after thourough discussions
> involving Avi
> Bryant and the VW engineering
> team.
>
> We could use #asString in this very specific case because VW has
> Number>>asString and
> we know that we have a number.
>
> However, #displayString is used in many places by Seaside with the
> assumption
> that a String is returned, not a Text. So even if you fix the #nextKey
> method to
> use #asString, it will probably break in other places.
>
> My conclusion is that you took a big risk overriding #displayString.
>
> HTH,
> Michel.
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Milan Cermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:59 AM
> > To: Bany, Michel
> > Subject: Re: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> >
> > Hi Michel,
> > I made some investigation in my image and found the reason.
> > Now I'm curious about WARenderingContext>>#nextKey method:
> >
> > nextKey
> > ^ count contents displayString
> >
> > I wonder why do you use #displayString for key construction.
> >
> > The problem that arise in my image was that my coleague overrided
> > Object>>#displayString to return Text ('cause it can do better
> > formating). This value you use as a key in dictionary of
> > callbacks. But when the reply comes this callback dictionary
> > is searched with String key. And they don't compare do each other.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Milan
> >
> > Bany, Michel wrote:
> > > I quickly tried it on VW 7.4 and did not get any of your symptoms.
> > >
> > > Since VW 7.4 comes with Swazoo 1.0 rather than 0.9.94, I
> > also made the
> > > effort of trying it also in VW 7.3.
> > > I did not get your symptoms either.
> > >
> > > Finally, I published SeasideForSwazoo (2.6a2.125.0,mbany)
> > and gave it
> > > a quick try in VW 7.3. All the things I tried worked fine.
> > >
> > > Did you load things into a virgin VW image ?
> > > Usually we get all sort of weird results if you load on top
> > of older
> > > versions.
> > >
> > > Best luck with SeasideForSwazoo 2.6a2.125.0, Michel
> >
> > --
> > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > programátor, analytik
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > ................................................................
> > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company nám. Míru 15,
> > Praha 2, http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> > ................................................................
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ing. Milan Čermák
> programátor, analytik
>
> [hidden email]
>
> ................................................................
> e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company
> nám. Míru 15, Praha 2, http://www.e-fractal.cz
> tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> ................................................................
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Petr Stepanek [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:55 AM
> To: 'VWNC'
> Subject: RE: VW SeasideForSwazoo bundle
>
> Michel,
>  thanks a lot for explanation.
>
>  Despite its name, I always thought that #displayString is
> intended to answer aText for two reasons:
> 1)  - see method comment
>
> Allows any Object to be used as the basis for a Label,
> although the purpose of displayString is to provide something
> more suitable than printString, primarily for use in SequenceViews.
>
> 2) it's used for SequenceViews, which can show emphasis.
> Then, why not have it answer a Text?
>
> In 7.4 vanillla.im, I did the following experiment:
> 1) browse all implementors of #displayString
> 2) select them all
> 3) use rewrite tool to rewrite
> ^``@stats
>
> to
>
> temp := ``@stats.
> Transcript show: temp class name; cr.
> ^temp
>
>  (not a perfect rewrite - temp is not declared - but a quick
> one to create
> :-)
>
> 4) do the rewrite
> 5) open system browser and play with it
>
> ... you'll see a mix of Text and String in the Transcript.
>
> Therefore, Cincom ("officially") sometimes uses
> #displayString to answer Text, too.
>
> On Milan's SeaSide problem with result of #displayString
> being stored in a dictionary, in the light that
> #displayString "officially" uses #displayString to answer
> both aText and aString: can we use ...
> displayString asString in Seaside?
> Please get me right: I don't want to downgrade what Avi
> decided with the VW team, I want to be sure what
> #displayString should answer. If this is to be aString, then,
> how do we (simply!) make SequenceViews to show something with
> emphasis? (visualBlock or setting it's own
> displayStringSelector are not very simple for new-comers).
>
> Thanks a lot,
>   Petr Stepanek
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Milan Čermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> > To: Petr Stepanek
> > Subject: [Fwd: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle]
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Původní zpráva --------
> > Předmět: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> > Datum: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:39:32 -0000
> > Od: Bany, Michel <[hidden email]>
> > Komu: Milan Cermák <[hidden email]>
> >
> > This code was automatically ported from Squeak.
> >
> > Apparently, the count i-var is a value holder for a number,
> this needs
> > to be converted to a String.
> > #displayString does exactly that.
> >
> > We did not use #asString for this conversion to String
> because VW does
> > not have Object>>asString and has Object>>displayString.
> >
> > Please note that the use of #displayString rather than
> #asString for
> > converting objects to String is the result of an agreement after
> > thourough discussions involving Avi Bryant and the VW engineering
> > team.
> >
> > We could use #asString in this very specific case because VW has
> > Number>>asString and
> > we know that we have a number.
> >
> > However, #displayString is used in many places by Seaside with the
> > assumption that a String is returned, not a Text. So even
> if you fix
> > the #nextKey method to use #asString, it will probably
> break in other
> > places.
> >
> > My conclusion is that you took a big risk overriding #displayString.
> >
> > HTH,
> > Michel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Milan Cermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:59 AM
> > > To: Bany, Michel
> > > Subject: Re: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> > >
> > > Hi Michel,
> > > I made some investigation in my image and found the reason.
> > > Now I'm curious about WARenderingContext>>#nextKey method:
> > >
> > > nextKey
> > > ^ count contents displayString
> > >
> > > I wonder why do you use #displayString for key construction.
> > >
> > > The problem that arise in my image was that my coleague overrided
> > > Object>>#displayString to return Text ('cause it can do better
> > > formating). This value you use as a key in dictionary of
> callbacks.
> > > But when the reply comes this callback dictionary is
> searched with
> > > String key. And they don't compare do each other.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Milan
> > >
> > > Bany, Michel wrote:
> > > > I quickly tried it on VW 7.4 and did not get any of
> your symptoms.
> > > >
> > > > Since VW 7.4 comes with Swazoo 1.0 rather than 0.9.94, I
> > > also made the
> > > > effort of trying it also in VW 7.3.
> > > > I did not get your symptoms either.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, I published SeasideForSwazoo (2.6a2.125.0,mbany)
> > > and gave it
> > > > a quick try in VW 7.3. All the things I tried worked fine.
> > > >
> > > > Did you load things into a virgin VW image ?
> > > > Usually we get all sort of weird results if you load on top
> > > of older
> > > > versions.
> > > >
> > > > Best luck with SeasideForSwazoo 2.6a2.125.0, Michel
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > > programátor, analytik
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > ................................................................
> > > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company nám. Míru
> 15, Praha
> > > 2, http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> > > ................................................................
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > programátor, analytik
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > ................................................................
> > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company nám. Míru
> 15, Praha 2,
> > http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> > ................................................................
> >
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bany, Michel [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 1:33 PM
> To: Petr Stepanek; VWNC
> Subject: RE: VW SeasideForSwazoo bundle
>
> Hi Petr,
>
> Ah, ok, thanks for all these details, that I was not aware of.
> I was just trusting the method selector name.
>
> Have you try to use #asString instead of #displayString in #nextKey  ?
>
> If we are lucky and nothing else breaks, then I will update
> Seaside to use #asString in this method.
>
> Michel.
>
>  
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Petr Stepanek [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:55 AM
> > To: 'VWNC'
> > Subject: RE: VW SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> >
> > Michel,
> >  thanks a lot for explanation.
> >
> >  Despite its name, I always thought that #displayString is
> > intended to answer aText for two reasons:
> > 1)  - see method comment
> >
> > Allows any Object to be used as the basis for a Label,
> > although the purpose of displayString is to provide something
> > more suitable than printString, primarily for use in SequenceViews.
> >
> > 2) it's used for SequenceViews, which can show emphasis.
> > Then, why not have it answer a Text?
> >
> > In 7.4 vanillla.im, I did the following experiment:
> > 1) browse all implementors of #displayString
> > 2) select them all
> > 3) use rewrite tool to rewrite
> > ^``@stats
> >
> > to
> >
> > temp := ``@stats.
> > Transcript show: temp class name; cr.
> > ^temp
> >
> >  (not a perfect rewrite - temp is not declared - but a quick
> > one to create
> > :-)
> >
> > 4) do the rewrite
> > 5) open system browser and play with it
> >
> > ... you'll see a mix of Text and String in the Transcript.
> >
> > Therefore, Cincom ("officially") sometimes uses
> > #displayString to answer Text, too.
> >
> > On Milan's SeaSide problem with result of #displayString
> > being stored in a dictionary, in the light that
> > #displayString "officially" uses #displayString to answer
> > both aText and aString: can we use ...
> > displayString asString in Seaside?
> > Please get me right: I don't want to downgrade what Avi
> > decided with the VW team, I want to be sure what
> > #displayString should answer. If this is to be aString, then,
> > how do we (simply!) make SequenceViews to show something with
> > emphasis? (visualBlock or setting it's own
> > displayStringSelector are not very simple for new-comers).
> >
> > Thanks a lot,
> >   Petr Stepanek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Milan Čermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> > > To: Petr Stepanek
> > > Subject: [Fwd: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------- Původní zpráva --------
> > > Předmět: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> > > Datum: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:39:32 -0000
> > > Od: Bany, Michel <[hidden email]>
> > > Komu: Milan Cermák <[hidden email]>
> > >
> > > This code was automatically ported from Squeak.
> > >
> > > Apparently, the count i-var is a value holder for a number,
> > this needs
> > > to be converted to a String.
> > > #displayString does exactly that.
> > >
> > > We did not use #asString for this conversion to String
> > because VW does
> > > not have Object>>asString and has Object>>displayString.
> > >
> > > Please note that the use of #displayString rather than
> > #asString for
> > > converting objects to String is the result of an agreement after
> > > thourough discussions involving Avi Bryant and the VW engineering
> > > team.
> > >
> > > We could use #asString in this very specific case because VW has
> > > Number>>asString and
> > > we know that we have a number.
> > >
> > > However, #displayString is used in many places by Seaside
> with the
> > > assumption that a String is returned, not a Text. So even
> > if you fix
> > > the #nextKey method to use #asString, it will probably
> > break in other
> > > places.
> > >
> > > My conclusion is that you took a big risk overriding
> #displayString.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > Michel.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Milan Cermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:59 AM
> > > > To: Bany, Michel
> > > > Subject: Re: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> > > >
> > > > Hi Michel,
> > > > I made some investigation in my image and found the reason.
> > > > Now I'm curious about WARenderingContext>>#nextKey method:
> > > >
> > > > nextKey
> > > > ^ count contents displayString
> > > >
> > > > I wonder why do you use #displayString for key construction.
> > > >
> > > > The problem that arise in my image was that my coleague
> overrided
> > > > Object>>#displayString to return Text ('cause it can do better
> > > > formating). This value you use as a key in dictionary of
> > callbacks.
> > > > But when the reply comes this callback dictionary is
> > searched with
> > > > String key. And they don't compare do each other.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Milan
> > > >
> > > > Bany, Michel wrote:
> > > > > I quickly tried it on VW 7.4 and did not get any of
> > your symptoms.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since VW 7.4 comes with Swazoo 1.0 rather than 0.9.94, I
> > > > also made the
> > > > > effort of trying it also in VW 7.3.
> > > > > I did not get your symptoms either.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, I published SeasideForSwazoo (2.6a2.125.0,mbany)
> > > > and gave it
> > > > > a quick try in VW 7.3. All the things I tried worked fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you load things into a virgin VW image ?
> > > > > Usually we get all sort of weird results if you load on top
> > > > of older
> > > > > versions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best luck with SeasideForSwazoo 2.6a2.125.0, Michel
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > > > programátor, analytik
> > > >
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > ................................................................
> > > > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company nám. Míru
> > 15, Praha
> > > > 2, http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > > > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> > > > ................................................................
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > > programátor, analytik
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > ................................................................
> > > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company nám. Míru
> > 15, Praha 2,
> > > http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> > > ................................................................
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jarvis, Robert P. (Bob) (Contingent)
> [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:13 PM
> To: Petr Stepanek
> Subject: RE: VW SeasideForSwazoo bundle
>
> I think the comment to which you referred is outdated.  I
> believe these selectors are intention-revealing and that
> #displayString and #printString should answer a String, not a
> Text.  If a Text is desired one should either create it from
> what is answered by these methods or add the appropriate
> methods to String, e.g. #displayText and #printText.  The
> (draft) ANSI Smalltalk standard says nothing about
> #displayString but does have guidelines for #printString, as follows:
>
> 5.3.1.18 Message: printString
> Synopsis
> Return a string that describes the receiver.
> Definition: <Object>
> A string consisting of a sequence of
> characters that describe the receiver are returned as the result.
> The exact sequence of characters that
> describe an object are implementation defined.
> Return Value
> <readableString> unspecified
> Errors
> none
>
> So it appears that #printString should answer something that
> conforms to the "readableString" protocol.  Hmmm...I don't
> know if Text conforms to "readableString" (see
> http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/uploads/172/standard_v1_9-i
> ndexed.pdf for more info), but if it does then one could
> reasonably argue that it would be valid to answer a Text from
> #printString.
>
> FWIW my understanding has been that #printString should
> answer a String describing the object in a fashion most
> useful to a developer (e.g. for display in the debugger),
> while #displayString should answer a String describing the
> object in a manner most useful to a non-developer.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Petr Stepanek [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:55 AM
> To: 'VWNC'
> Subject: RE: VW SeasideForSwazoo bundle
>
> Michel,
>  thanks a lot for explanation.
>
>  Despite its name, I always thought that #displayString is intended to
> answer aText for two reasons:
> 1)  - see method comment
>
> Allows any Object to be used as the basis for a Label, although the
> purpose of displayString is to provide something more suitable than
> printString, primarily for use in SequenceViews.
>
> 2) it's used for SequenceViews, which can show emphasis.
> Then, why not have
> it answer a Text?
>
> In 7.4 vanillla.im, I did the following experiment:
> 1) browse all implementors of #displayString
> 2) select them all
> 3) use rewrite tool to rewrite
> ^``@stats
>
> to
>
> temp := ``@stats.
> Transcript show: temp class name; cr.
> ^temp
>
>  (not a perfect rewrite - temp is not declared - but a quick
> one to create
> :-)
>
> 4) do the rewrite
> 5) open system browser and play with it
>
> .... you'll see a mix of Text and String in the Transcript.
>
> Therefore, Cincom ("officially") sometimes uses
> #displayString to answer
> Text, too.
>
> On Milan's SeaSide problem with result of #displayString
> being stored in a
> dictionary, in the light that #displayString "officially" uses
> #displayString to answer both aText and aString: can we use ...
> displayString asString in Seaside?
> Please get me right: I don't want to downgrade what Avi
> decided with the VW
> team, I want to be sure what #displayString should answer. If
> this is to be
> aString, then, how do we (simply!) make SequenceViews to show
> something with
> emphasis? (visualBlock or setting it's own
> displayStringSelector are not
> very simple for new-comers).
>
> Thanks a lot,
>   Petr Stepanek
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Milan Čermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> > To: Petr Stepanek
> > Subject: [Fwd: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle]
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Původní zpráva --------
> > Předmět: RE: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> > Datum: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:39:32 -0000
> > Od: Bany, Michel <[hidden email]>
> > Komu: Milan Cermák <[hidden email]>
> >
> > This code was automatically ported from Squeak.
> >
> > Apparently, the count i-var is a value holder for a number,
> this needs
> > to be converted to a String.
> > #displayString does exactly that.
> >
> > We did not use #asString for this conversion to String
> because VW does
> > not have Object>>asString
> > and has Object>>displayString.
> >
> > Please note that the use of #displayString rather than #asString for
> > converting objects to String
> > is the result of an agreement after thourough discussions
> > involving Avi
> > Bryant and the VW engineering
> > team.
> >
> > We could use #asString in this very specific case because VW has
> > Number>>asString and
> > we know that we have a number.
> >
> > However, #displayString is used in many places by Seaside with the
> > assumption
> > that a String is returned, not a Text. So even if you fix
> the #nextKey
> > method to
> > use #asString, it will probably break in other places.
> >
> > My conclusion is that you took a big risk overriding #displayString.
> >
> > HTH,
> > Michel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Milan Cermák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:59 AM
> > > To: Bany, Michel
> > > Subject: Re: SeasideForSwazoo bundle
> > >
> > > Hi Michel,
> > > I made some investigation in my image and found the reason.
> > > Now I'm curious about WARenderingContext>>#nextKey method:
> > >
> > > nextKey
> > > ^ count contents displayString
> > >
> > > I wonder why do you use #displayString for key construction.
> > >
> > > The problem that arise in my image was that my coleague overrided
> > > Object>>#displayString to return Text ('cause it can do better
> > > formating). This value you use as a key in dictionary of
> > > callbacks. But when the reply comes this callback dictionary
> > > is searched with String key. And they don't compare do each other.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Milan
> > >
> > > Bany, Michel wrote:
> > > > I quickly tried it on VW 7.4 and did not get any of
> your symptoms.
> > > >
> > > > Since VW 7.4 comes with Swazoo 1.0 rather than 0.9.94, I
> > > also made the
> > > > effort of trying it also in VW 7.3.
> > > > I did not get your symptoms either.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, I published SeasideForSwazoo (2.6a2.125.0,mbany)
> > > and gave it
> > > > a quick try in VW 7.3. All the things I tried worked fine.
> > > >
> > > > Did you load things into a virgin VW image ?
> > > > Usually we get all sort of weird results if you load on top
> > > of older
> > > > versions.
> > > >
> > > > Best luck with SeasideForSwazoo 2.6a2.125.0, Michel
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > > programátor, analytik
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > ................................................................
> > > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company nám. Míru 15,
> > > Praha 2, http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
> > > ................................................................
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ing. Milan Čermák
> > programátor, analytik
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > ................................................................
> > e-FRACTAL, s.r.o. => e-business driven company
> > nám. Míru 15, Praha 2, http://www.e-fractal.cz
> > tel: 222 512 000, fax: 222 515 000
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