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Re: AIDA-Persistence...?

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Janko Mivšek

Re: AIDA-Persistence...?

Hi Masashi, Nico,

Let we move that debate to main mailing list, because it is important
and we need to discuss it more broadly.

Masashi UMEZAWA wrote:

> Actually I was also thinking about exporting/importing user/password
> info when implementing Scribo-Persistence.
> I'm not sure the data should be saved in proprietary XML (SIXX). But
> it would be very practical feature (especially when hosting multi AIDA
> images).

I agree too. We can do kind of general persistence which all Aida
sub-systems can then use. Just by declaring some object asPersistent.
And when you change this object, it goes directly to a set of so called
"dirty" objects to be stored somewhere. This can be a general pattern
then different persistence managers can deal with it differently.

But let we start with Scribo first. We will learn here how to do
persistence more generally.

For SIXX on Scribo we specially need to achieve a human readable XML
serialization. That's important because Scribo needs a long-term
archiving of content, which is also portable to other, non-smalltalk
systems. Self described and human readable XML is therefore a paramount
importance.

To achieve that I would add a mapping instructions into a special
methods in a class side of serialized objects like Document. This is how
Gemstone on VW also deals with that problem, that is, how to influence
persistence better.

Masashi, can be SIXX extended that way?

Best regards
JAnko

>
> Cheers,
>
> 2008/9/4 nico <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi Janko and Masashi,
>>
>> I was thinking about moving the Scribo-Persistence package directly to
>> Aida, adapt it a bit to be more general, and then we could even save on
>> disk users and groups, the securityManager, the urlResolver, etc
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Nico
>> --
>> Nicolas Petton
>> http://nico.bioskop.fr
>> ___
>> ooooooo
>> OOOOOOOOO
>> |Smalltalk|
>> OOOOOOOOO
>> ooooooo
>> \ /
>> [|]
>> --------------------------------
>> Ma clé PGP est disponible ici :
>> http://nico.bioskop.fr/pgp-key.html
>>
>

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Nicolas Petton

Re: AIDA-Persistence...?

Le vendredi 05 septembre 2008 à 11:48 +0200, Janko Mivšek a écrit :

> Hi Masashi, Nico,
>
> Let we move that debate to main mailing list, because it is important
> and we need to discuss it more broadly.
>
> Masashi UMEZAWA wrote:
>
> > Actually I was also thinking about exporting/importing user/password
> > info when implementing Scribo-Persistence.
> > I'm not sure the data should be saved in proprietary XML (SIXX). But
> > it would be very practical feature (especially when hosting multi AIDA
> > images).
>
> I agree too. We can do kind of general persistence which all Aida
> sub-systems can then use. Just by declaring some object asPersistent.
> And when you change this object, it goes directly to a set of so called
> "dirty" objects to be stored somewhere. This can be a general pattern
> then different persistence managers can deal with it differently.
>
> But let we start with Scribo first. We will learn here how to do
> persistence more generally.

I agree.

I would keep the persistence package in Scribo for now, but keep in mind
that we should move it directly to Aida in future versions.

Actually, looking at Scribo-Persistence package, it's really well done,
and I think that it would be easy to move it to Aida.

Cheers!

Nico
--
Nicolas Petton
http://nico.bioskop.fr
___
ooooooo
OOOOOOOOO
|Smalltalk|
OOOOOOOOO
ooooooo
\ /
[|]
--------------------------------
Ma clé PGP est disponible ici :
http://nico.bioskop.fr/pgp-key.html

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Masashi UMEZAWA-2

Re: AIDA-Persistence...?

In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek

Hi Janko,

> For SIXX on Scribo we specially need to achieve a human readable XML
> serialization. That's important because Scribo needs a long-term
> archiving of content, which is also portable to other, non-smalltalk
> systems. Self described and human readable XML is therefore a paramount
> importance.
>
> To achieve that I would add a mapping instructions into a special
> methods in a class side of serialized objects like Document. This is how
> Gemstone on VW also deals with that problem, that is, how to influence
> persistence better.
>
> Masashi, can be SIXX extended that way?
>

SIXX is extendable in many ways. Please see the release note:
http://swikis.ddo.jp/umejava/46

However, each element in SIXX must be enclosed in <sixx.object ...>
tag. So, probably specially designed XML format would be better for
human readability. Also, SIXX relies on Smalltalk type systems, so the
format is only interoperable among Smalltalks. (We need to translate
class names in SIXX for other languages).

Apparently there are some trade-offs. SIXX is good for developing XML
storage quickly and its data is at least neutral to major Smalltalks.

Anyway, you can try Scribo-Persistence package. It broadly uses SIXX features.

Cheers,
--
[:masashi | ^umezawa]
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