Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

Nicolai Hess


2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

 

yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of “all maintained in the image”, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo. 

now, about NB, we do not have special plans. 
it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo. 

now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a “unified FFI”, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alien…). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). 
Again… this are just ideas for the future :)

Esteban



On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated
or still with an external config and on STHub?

The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package
from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day
(trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).

So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated
into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.

But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and
more packages using external configs again.

What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get
synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?

Thx
T.


I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge.
I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what
is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.



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Re: Pharo is mine

EstebanLM

On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:31, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:



2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban


 

yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of “all maintained in the image”, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo. 

now, about NB, we do not have special plans. 
it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo. 

now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a “unified FFI”, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alien…). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). 
Again… this are just ideas for the future :)

Esteban



On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated
or still with an external config and on STHub?

The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package
from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day
(trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).

So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated
into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.

But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and
more packages using external configs again.

What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get
synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?

Thx
T.


I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge.
I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what
is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.




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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by Nicolai Hess

On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:



2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban



 

yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of “all maintained in the image”, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo. 

now, about NB, we do not have special plans. 
it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo. 

now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a “unified FFI”, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alien…). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). 
Again… this are just ideas for the future :)

Esteban



On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated
or still with an external config and on STHub?

The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package
from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day
(trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).

So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated
into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.

But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and
more packages using external configs again.

What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get
synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?

Thx
T.


I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge.
I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what
is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.




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Re: Pharo is mine

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
(sorry, headers messed… damn you Mail)


On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:32, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:31, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:



2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban


 

yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of “all maintained in the image”, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo. 

now, about NB, we do not have special plans. 
it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo. 

now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a “unified FFI”, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alien…). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). 
Again… this are just ideas for the future :)

Esteban



On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated
or still with an external config and on STHub?

The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package
from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day
(trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).

So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated
into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.

But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and
more packages using external configs again.

What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get
synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?

Thx
T.


I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge.
I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what
is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.





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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

Igor Stasenko
In reply to this post by EstebanLM


On 26 November 2014 at 08:33, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:



2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

 
The process is simple:
- Athens has own repository where its sources are maintained and updated etc..
- an updates then can be loaded into Pharo image(s), so it can come with Pharo distribution by default.
 
It is important to keep this project in separate repository, that helps with managing it and producing predictable results.The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.

Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance,
like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.


no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban




--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

Nicolai Hess
2014-11-26 14:54 GMT+01:00 Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]>:


On 26 November 2014 at 08:33, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:



2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

 
The process is simple:
- Athens has own repository where its sources are maintained and updated etc..
- an updates then can be loaded into Pharo image(s), so it can come with Pharo distribution by default.
 
It is important to keep this project in separate repository, that helps with managing it and producing predictable results.

Ah, that is what I wanted to know.

 
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.

That's how I've done it recently.

I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.

 
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.

Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance,
like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.


no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban




--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

Marcus Denker-4

On 26 Nov 2014, at 15:08, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-26 14:54 GMT+01:00 Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]>:


On 26 November 2014 at 08:33, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:



2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
both are integrated into the image. 
while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case… we have a problem for the future :P).

what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?

 
The process is simple: 
- Athens has own repository where its sources are maintained and updated etc..
- an updates then can be loaded into Pharo image(s), so it can come with Pharo distribution by default.
 
It is important to keep this project in separate repository, that helps with managing it and producing predictable results.

Ah, that is what I wanted to know.

 
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.

That's how I've done it recently.

I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.

 

Yes, that would be nice.

For your fixes I waited actually for Igor to react. (I think I even did send him a mail after waiting for some weeks). After that, I decided it was better
to add the changes to Pharo than to risk loosing you as a contributor because we ignore your contributions.

Marcus
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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

stepharo

Yes, that would be nice.

For your fixes I waited actually for Igor to react. (I think I even did send him a mail after waiting for some weeks). After that, I decided it was better
to add the changes to Pharo than to risk loosing you as a contributor because we ignore your contributions.

+1

Marcus

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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

stepharo
In reply to this post by Nicolai Hess

 
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.

That's how I've done it recently.

I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.

Thanks for doing that!


 
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.

Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance,
like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.


no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban




--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.


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Re: Athens Repository (NativeBoost)

Nicolai Hess

2014-11-27 10:02 GMT+01:00 stepharo <[hidden email]>:

 
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.

That's how I've done it recently.

I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.

Thanks for doing that!

Hm, actually I don't know how to do that :)
Whats the common way for merging this changes back?
Do I just
open Monticello Browser,
select the Athens packages (Athens-Balloon/Athens-Cairo/Athens-Core ..)
and just save them in the 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Athens/main' - repository ?


 


 
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.

Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance,
like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.


no idea… I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. 
Igor will know better :)

Esteban




--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.



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Re: Glamour-core maybe missing from Pharo40/main

Marcus Denker-4

On 29 Nov 2014, at 07:53, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:


2014-11-27 10:02 GMT+01:00 stepharo <[hidden email]>:

 
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.

That's how I've done it recently.

I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.

Thanks for doing that!

Hm, actually I don't know how to do that :)
Whats the common way for merging this changes back?
Do I just
open Monticello Browser,
select the Athens packages (Athens-Balloon/Athens-Cairo/Athens-Core ..)
and just save them in the 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Athens/main' - repository ?


I would say
-> merge with the repo (if there are changes)
-> commit back to the repo
-> sync with maintainer
-> Maintainer should give OK and make a new Config

Then we should make sure to have the same in the image as in the repo.

Marcus