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Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

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Jerome Peace

Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

Hi Bert,

>I just changed the wording on the "missing plugin" page - is that better?

Ouch no. See below.

>And indeed, the distro package should register the plugin. Maybe it doesn't, I don't know.

FYI

The eToys blurb from their distro:

eToys
A media-rich model, simulation construction kit and authoring tool
Installed
Squeak Etoys was inspired by LOGO, PARC-Smalltalk, Hypercard, and starLOGO. It is a media-rich authoring environment with a simple powerful scripted object model for many kinds of objects created by end-users that runs on many platforms, and is free and open source. It includes 2D and 3D graphics, images, text, particles, pres-entations, web-pages, videos, sound and MIDI, etc. It includes the ability to share desktops with other Etoy users in real-time, so many forms of immersive mentoring and play can be done over the Internet.

This is the Squeak image developed for the OLPC project.

Canonical does not provide updates for eToys. Some updates may be provided by the Ubuntu community.

License: Unknown Version: 3.0.1916+svn132-2ubuntu1 (etoys)

=====

Above is the info from the Ubuntu Software when You get to eToys.
Note the version and the license info.

After playing a bit I realized I needed to close firefox and try again.

So I did.

Close.
then

Firefox
Squeakland>Showcase>All>Musical Chords>launch
Which now sends me to the launch url.
Which now just shows me a blank page.
IMHO this is worse than before, at least then it seemed it was trying to help.

launch page Url:

http://squeakland.org/launcher/?http://squeakland.org/content/showcase/everyone/accounts/digimath/Music%20Chord%20game.011.pr

This page (after Bert's changes) now shows up as a blank white page on my screen.

page source: <extra lines removed>

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd ">
<html>
<head>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1">



<title>Etoys Project</title>
</head>

<body>



<script language="javascript">

//This script detects the Squeakland plugin

var agt = navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();
var ie = (agt.indexOf("msie") != -1);
var ns = (navigator.appName.indexOf("Netscape") != -1);
var win = ((agt.indexOf("win") != -1) || (agt.indexOf("32bit") != -1));
var mac = (agt.indexOf("mac") != -1);
var olpc = (agt.indexOf("olpc") != -1);
var url = document.URL;
var src = url.substr(url.indexOf("?")+1);
var prj = unescape(src.substr(src.lastIndexOf("/")+1));

if ( ie && win )
{
SqueakInstalled = detectIE("SqueakOCX2.SqueakOCX.1", "Squeak");
}

if ( ns || !win )
{
nse = "";
for ( var i = 0; i < navigator.mimeTypes.length; i++ ) nse += navigator.mimeTypes[i].type.toLowerCase();

SqueakInstalled = nse.indexOf("application/x-squeak-source") != -1;
}

function detectIE( ClassID, name )
{
result = false;
document.write('<' + 'SCRIPT LANGUAGE=VBScript>\n on error resume next \n result = IsObject(CreateObject("' + ClassID + '"))<' + '/SCRIPT>\n');
if ( result ) return true;
else return false;
}

if ( SqueakInstalled )
{
document.write('<OBJECT\n' +
'ID="SqueakOCX Control"\n' +
'WIDTH=800 HEIGHT=600\n' +
'ALIGN=center BORDER=2\n' +
'CLASSID="CLSID:2BE9C39E-8386-4435-B337-FCDAD8EAB006"\n' +
'CODEBASE="/content/installers/EtoysInstaller.exe">\n' +
'<PARAM name="src" value="' + src + '">\n' +
'<PARAM name="pluginspage" value="/download/">\n' +
'<PARAM name="apiSupported" value="false">\n' +
'<embed\n' +
'type="application/x-squeak-source"\n' +
'ALIGN="CENTER"\n' +
'WIDTH="800"\n' +
'HEIGHT="600"\n' +
'src="' + src + '"\n' +
'apiSupported="FALSE"\n' +
'pluginspage="/download/"\n' +
'></embed>\n' +
'</OBJECT><br>\n'+
'You may also download <a href="' + src + '">' + prj +'</a> and open it in Etoys.')
}
else
{
if ( olpc )
{
document.write(
'Downloading Etoys project <a href="' + src + '">' + prj + '</a>. Please wait.\n'+
'<br><br><br><big>When the download is finished, start <b>' + prj + '</b> from your Journal.</big>' );
window.location = src;
}
else
{
document.write('You do not seem to have the Etoys plugin installed.<br>\n' +
'If you are using a Macintosh or Windows PC, please download the ' +
'<a href="/download/">plugin here</a> and then run the installer.<br>\n' +
'As a Linux user, please install your distribution's "Etoys" package.<br><br>\n' +
'You could also download <a href="' + src + '">' + prj +'</a> and open it in Etoys.<br>\n'+
'Perhaps you want to use <a href="/download/">Etoys-To-Go</a> for that, which should work ' +
'equally well on Linux, Mac, or Windows machines.\n');
}
}

</script>

</body>

</html>

======

Anyway to reiterate,

1) First it should work out of the box and it does not.
Is the plugin present?
What specifically is detected to determine the plugin is there or not on Ubuntu?
I can't test for windows or macs at this point.

2) How should Squeakland help with the troubleshooting?
IMO a specific help should be provided for fixing the plugin problem.
It should mention the plugin problem.
And Either provide a remedy for just the plugin problem OR
direct the user to remove the Ubuntu provided installation. (I.E. go to where you got it and press REMOVE).
Then direct then how to reinstall the whole Magila from the Squeakland distribution.
Basicly do not leave a user with the need to make a choice they have not been given enough information to make.
Better still help make the choice for them.

Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace
P.S. Please cc: me personally as well as replying to the list. The only list I let send me mail right now is the beginners. Cheers --Jer

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

On 07.05.2010, at 18:17, Jerome Peace wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bert,
>
>
>> I just changed the wording on the "missing plugin" page - is that better?
>
> Ouch no. See below.

Oops. Think I had a bad quote in there. Better now?

>> And indeed, the distro package should register the plugin. Maybe it doesn't, I don't know.
>
> FYI
>
> The eToys blurb from their distro:
>
> eToys
> A media-rich model, simulation construction kit and authoring tool
> Installed
> Squeak Etoys was inspired by LOGO, PARC-Smalltalk, Hypercard, and starLOGO. It is a media-rich authoring environment with a simple powerful scripted object model for many kinds of objects created by end-users that runs on many platforms, and is free and open source. It includes 2D and 3D graphics, images, text, particles, pres-entations, web-pages, videos, sound and MIDI, etc. It includes the ability to share desktops with other Etoy users in real-time, so many forms of immersive mentoring and play can be done over the Internet.
>
> This is the Squeak image developed for the OLPC project.
>
> Canonical does not provide updates for eToys. Some updates may be provided by the Ubuntu community.
>
> License: Unknown Version: 3.0.1916+svn132-2ubuntu1 (etoys)
>
> =====
>
> Above is the info from the Ubuntu Software when You get to eToys.
> Note the version and the license info.

Strange, and totally outdated, yes. Etoys 4 was just accepted into Debian however. It should trickle down in time to Ubuntu. I'm not sure if the plugin works in there however - I think José mentioned it isn't even compiled anymore in the CMake-based Linux VM.

> After playing a bit I realized I needed to close firefox and try again.
>
> So I did.
>
> Close.
> then
>
> Firefox
> Squeakland>Showcase>All>Musical Chords>launch
> Which now sends me to the launch url.
> Which now just shows me a blank page.

Please try again. And let me know if the wording at least makes the intent clear.

> ======
>
> Anyway to reiterate,
>
> 1) First it should work out of the box and it does not.
> Is the plugin present?
> What specifically is detected to determine the plugin is there or not on Ubuntu?

The script looks for a plugin that handles "application/x-squeak-source".

You can see all plugins by going to "about:plugins" I think, it might also be in the help menu.

> 2) How should Squeakland help with the troubleshooting?
> IMO a specific help should be provided for fixing the plugin problem.
> It should mention the plugin problem.
> And Either provide a remedy for just the plugin problem OR
> direct the user to remove the Ubuntu provided installation. (I.E. go to where you got it and press REMOVE).
> Then direct then how to reinstall the whole Magila from the Squeakland distribution.
> Basicly do not leave a user with the need to make a choice they have not been given enough information to make.
> Better still help make the choice for them.
>
> Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

Well, it is really up to the distributions to package the software properly so it works. Also, if the distribution's packages do not work, you need to file a bug report with them. If nobody ever complains, it won't ever get fixed. Also, someone should start maintaining the Etoys and Squeak packages in Ubuntu. That is even happening in the Sugar context, but Sugar does not use the plugin.

Something that we at Squeakland need to do is provide proper source tarballs. These would have two purposes: for one, interested users could then install from source to get the latest independent of the packaging, second, it would make it easier for packagers to see how it is supposed to work.

We do not, however, have the resources currently at Squeakland to build distro packages. And even if we had, it would still be better to put that effort into fixing the packages in the distributions, rather than duplicating their work.

The only short-term solution I can see is directing Linux users to use Etoys-To-Go, which my changed blurb now does. Longer-term we need folks who build nice Etoys packages for Linux, Windows, Mac, and whatever else is out there. Help appreciated.

- Bert -

Hannes Hirzel

Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

On 5/9/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The only short-term solution I can see is directing Linux users to use
> Etoys-To-Go, which my changed blurb now does.

Bert, could you please give the download link for this please?
--Hannes

Longer-term we need folks who
> build nice Etoys packages for Linux, Windows, Mac, and whatever else is out
> there. Help appreciated.
>
> - Bert -
>

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

On 09.05.2010, at 00:45, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
>
> On 5/9/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The only short-term solution I can see is directing Linux users to use
>> Etoys-To-Go, which my changed blurb now does.
>
> Bert, could you please give the download link for this please?
> --Hannes

http://squeakland.org/download/

- Bert -

Jerome Peace

Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg

Hi Bert

Thanks for your reply.

--- On Sun, 5/9/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys
> To: "etoys dev" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]>, "Jerome Peace" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 3:37 AM
> On 07.05.2010, at 18:17, Jerome Peace
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Bert,
> >
> >
> >> I just changed the wording on the "missing plugin"
> page - is that better?
> >
> > Ouch no. See below.
>
> Oops. Think I had a bad quote in there. Better now?
>

Yes. The error message has reappeared. It is directing Linux users to please install the "Etoys" package from your local distribution.

Been there. Done that. Got the tea shirt and the error message!

I did check Firefox for plugin's and the Squeak or Etoy plugin was not listed.

Then I decided I might as well ask the package center to remove Etoys.
Which it did leaving a Squeak directory behind. I had run Etoys from the educational menu and it saved some files connected to initializing the security features. Those files were still hanging around after the removal.

> >> And indeed, the distro package should register the
> plugin. Maybe it doesn't, I don't know.
> >
> > FYI
> >
> > The eToys blurb from their distro:
> >
> > eToys
> > A media-rich model, simulation construction kit and
> authoring tool
> > Installed
> > Squeak Etoys was inspired by LOGO, PARC-Smalltalk,
> Hypercard, and starLOGO. It is a media-rich authoring
> environment with a simple powerful scripted object model for
> many kinds of objects created by end-users that runs on many
> platforms, and is free and open source. It includes 2D and
> 3D graphics, images, text, particles, pres-entations,
> web-pages, videos, sound and MIDI, etc. It includes the
> ability to share desktops with other Etoy users in
> real-time, so many forms of immersive mentoring and play can
> be done over the Internet.
> >
> > This is the Squeak image developed for the OLPC
> project.
> >
> > Canonical does not provide updates for eToys. Some
> updates may be provided by the Ubuntu community.
> >
> > License: Unknown Version:
> 3.0.1916+svn132-2ubuntu1 (etoys)
> >
> > =====
> >
> > Above is the info from the Ubuntu Software when You
> get to eToys.
> > Note the version and the license info.
>
> Strange, and totally outdated, yes. Etoys 4 was just
> accepted into Debian however. It should trickle down in time
> to Ubuntu.

Who would know how if/how it would get into the update stream? Does Etoys even register itself to get updated?

>I'm not sure if the plugin works in there however
> - I think José mentioned it isn't even compiled anymore in
> the CMake-based Linux VM.

The blurb does not say a plugin is downloaded. Firefox does not show a plugin in its list of them. The launch page detects the lack of plugin and gives the error message.

So the plugin does not happen by downloading Etoys.

Is it possible to provide the plugin as a separate download package?
Urhm. That's actually two or more questions.

Is it possible for them to provide a separate plugin download if they want to?

Is it possible for squeakland to craft a separate plugin package that works in the context of what is already there?

Is squeakland willing to do so? Or under what circumstances is Squeakland willing to do so?

Who at Canonical or in the Ubuntu community would be interested is seeing this happen. That is beyond the present company corresponding here?

>
> > After playing a bit I realized I needed to close
> firefox and try again.
> >
> > So I did.
> >
> > Close.
> > then
> >
> > Firefox
> > Squeakland>Showcase>All>Musical
> Chords>launch
> > Which now sends me to the launch url.
> > Which now just shows me a blank page.
>
>
> Please try again. And let me know if the wording at least
> makes the intent clear.

Intent yes. Unfortunately the meaning of a communication is the result.
In the context here it will only lead to frustrated Lucid Lynx users. I am a little worried about what a frustrated lynx might do. :( I expect a lot of brick damaged crt screens. :)

>
> > ======
> >
> > Anyway to reiterate,
> >
> > 1) First it should work out of the box and it does
> not.
> > Is the plugin present?
> > What specifically is detected to determine the plugin
> is there or not on Ubuntu?
>
> The script looks for a plugin that handles
> "application/x-squeak-source".

Ah, thank you.
>
> You can see all plugins by going to "about:plugins" I
> think, it might also be in the help menu.

Did.The plugin definitely did not come with the etoys installation.

>
> > 2) How should Squeakland help with the
> troubleshooting?
> > IMO a specific help should be provided for
> fixing the plugin problem.
> > It should mention the plugin problem.
> > And Either provide a remedy for just the plugin
> problem OR
> > direct the user to remove the Ubuntu provided
> installation. (I.E. go to where you got it and press
> REMOVE).
> > Then direct them how to reinstall the whole
> Magila from the Squeakland distribution.
> > Basicly do not leave a user with the need to
> make a choice they have not been given enough information to
> make.
> > Better still help make the choice for them.
> >
> > Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace
>
> Well, it is really up to the distributions to package the
> software properly so it works.

As Yogi might say: "I theory, theory works. In practice, it don't."

>Also, if the distribution's
> packages do not work, you need to file a bug report with
> them. If nobody ever complains, it won't ever get fixed.

True, but I been there done that; got little acknowledgment from the report. This time I'll keep my powder dry till I have a better idea how to get some action/reaction. Others are welcome to try. I've made detailed observations here so they can be referenced.

> Also, someone should start maintaining the Etoys and Squeak
> packages in Ubuntu. That is even happening in the Sugar
> context, but Sugar does not use the plugin.
>
Who would be good for doing that?

> Something that we at Squeakland need to do is provide
> proper source tarballs. These would have two purposes: for
> one, interested users could then install from source to get
> the latest independent of the packaging, second, it would
> make it easier for packagers to see how it is supposed to
> work.
>
> We do not, however, have the resources currently at
> Squeakland to build distro packages. And even if we had, it
> would still be better to put that effort into fixing the
> packages in the distributions, rather than duplicating their
> work.

Under what circumstances can the resources at squeakland be increased to accomplish this?

As you pointed out one of the ways to increase the usefulness of the distribution is to show the way so the distributors can make proper packages.

Right now it still seems to me that the task we are talking about here needs to be better defined.
>
> The only short-term solution I can see is directing Linux
> users to use Etoys-To-Go, which my changed blurb now does.

Actually the changed blurb directs users away from Etoys-To-Go. It sends them to the mercy of the distributor. And brick throwing frustration.

Anyway for my current experiment I:
Asked the Ubuntu Software Center to remove their Etoys.
Went to the download page by following the plugin here link.
Pressed etoys to go.

To this Ubuntu offered to save the file or open it in the archive viewer.
I chose archive viewer.
Which gave me the option of extracting the file (it did not offer to install it as it will sometimes do)
So I now have the extracted folder and contents in a subdirectory of my home page.

At this point I have run out of things I know to do from what I have been told. So what is the next step in the installation process? Where on the squeakland sight should those directions appear?

As I remember when I went to the sight to download etoys for the 8.04 version of Ubuntu, the site figured out what kind of a computer and OS I had, offered to download the appropriate things and I ended up with both a etoys button in an education folder and programming folder, plus when I launched a project in Firefox I had the plugin installed as well.

So how do I get back to that experience? Also how despite the obstacles do I install etoys and firefox plugin on the fresh installation of 10.04 Ubuntu?

Finally, I want to acknowledge that the tone of these post is complaining. That currently is my helping role as observant bug tracker. I only get to see things from the perspective of a neophyte for a short period of time. Bert, your timely and knowledgeable responses are what keep me hopeful that both our times and energies will lead to some useful results.

Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

> Longer-term we need folks who build nice Etoys packages for
> Linux, Windows, Mac, and whatever else is out there. Help
> appreciated.
>
> - Bert -
>
>

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

On 09.05.2010, at 16:02, Jerome Peace wrote:

>
>
> Yes. The error message has reappeared. It is directing Linux users to please install the "Etoys" package from your local distribution.
>
> Been there. Done that. Got the tea shirt and the error message!
>
> I did check Firefox for plugin's and the Squeak or Etoy plugin was not listed.
>
> Then I decided I might as well ask the package center to remove Etoys.
> Which it did leaving a Squeak directory behind. I had run Etoys from the educational menu and it saved some files connected to initializing the security features. Those files were still hanging around after the removal.

Well, all I can say is that it works fine on Fedora 11:

[bert@localhost ~]$ rpm -q etoys squeak-vm
etoys-4.0.2339-1.fc11.noarch
squeak-vm-3.10.5-2.fc11.i586

Here are the Ubuntu bug trackers:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/etoys
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm

The thing is that this really needs to be fixed by someone doing the Ubuntu packages. This is how the Linux ecosystem works - Squeakland is just the upstream software provider.

>> Etoys 4 was just
>> accepted into Debian however. It should trickle down in time
>> to Ubuntu.
>
> Who would know how if/how it would get into the update stream? Does Etoys even register itself to get updated?

As you can see above, there is a ticket open. Etoys doesn't need to "register itself". Ubuntu's Etoys maintainer (if there is one) would have to get the version updated. But again, *I* don't even know much about Ubuntu update policy. I don't have to.

>> I'm not sure if the plugin works in there however
>> - I think José mentioned it isn't even compiled anymore in
>> the CMake-based Linux VM.
>
> The blurb does not say a plugin is downloaded. Firefox does not show a plugin in its list of them. The launch page detects the lack of plugin and gives the error message.
>
> So the plugin does not happen by downloading Etoys.
>
> Is it possible to provide the plugin as a separate download package?
> Urhm. That's actually two or more questions.
>
> Is it possible for them to provide a separate plugin download if they want to?

Yes. Doesn't make much sense, but it's possible.

> Is it possible for squeakland to craft a separate plugin package that works in the context of what is already there?

Many things are possible. Doesn't make them reasonable.

> Is squeakland willing to do so? Or under what circumstances is Squeakland willing to do so?

Your abstract talk about "Squeakland" is bothering me. Who do you think is Squeakland? It's the people volunteering their time. There aren't many of them. There is no-one hiding behind the scenes secretly doing development work. If you follow the bug tracker and read the mailing list you know who we are.

So what you are really asking is, am I going to build an Ubuntu package? I don't think so.

> Who at Canonical or in the Ubuntu community would be interested is seeing this happen. That is beyond the present company corresponding here?

I don't know. One idea is to read who commented on the Etoys bug reports in the past. Those people obviously do care.

But the only real way is to get involved in that community. In Edubuntu for example. And Sugar of course, which Etoys is part of, but that doesn't utilize the plugin. Or, get involved with Debian, e.g. the Skolelinux / Debian Edu folks. That might even be better because there is no need to have different packages. But someone needs to see to it that the Debian packages are right, and someone needs to make sure they get into Ubuntu.

>> You can see all plugins by going to "about:plugins" I
>> think, it might also be in the help menu.
>
> Did.The plugin definitely did not come with the etoys installation.

As I said, file a bug report.

>> Also, if the distribution's
>> packages do not work, you need to file a bug report with
>> them. If nobody ever complains, it won't ever get fixed.
>
> True, but I been there done that; got little acknowledgment from the report. This time I'll keep my powder dry till I have a better idea how to get some action/reaction. Others are welcome to try. I've made detailed observations here so they can be referenced.

That is nice, but writing it here really does not help you getting the Ubuntu packages fixed.

>> Also, someone should start maintaining the Etoys and Squeak
>> packages in Ubuntu. That is even happening in the Sugar
>> context, but Sugar does not use the plugin.
>>
> Who would be good for doing that?

Well anyone who is using Ubuntu and has time and interest to get involved, learn about packaging, etc.

>> Something that we at Squeakland need to do is provide
>> proper source tarballs. These would have two purposes: for
>> one, interested users could then install from source to get
>> the latest independent of the packaging, second, it would
>> make it easier for packagers to see how it is supposed to
>> work.
>>
>> We do not, however, have the resources currently at
>> Squeakland to build distro packages. And even if we had, it
>> would still be better to put that effort into fixing the
>> packages in the distributions, rather than duplicating their
>> work.
>
> Under what circumstances can the resources at squeakland be increased to accomplish this?

Someone needs to volunteer his/her time to it.

> As you pointed out one of the ways to increase the usefulness of the distribution is to show the way so the distributors can make proper packages.
>
> Right now it still seems to me that the task we are talking about here needs to be better defined.

As I pointed out, the Fedora packages do work. So there is an example.

>> The only short-term solution I can see is directing Linux
>> users to use Etoys-To-Go, which my changed blurb now does.
>
> Actually the changed blurb directs users away from Etoys-To-Go. It sends them to the mercy of the distributor.

Okay, I made it even more explicit. Better?

Alternatively, this should point to a page explaining the Linux situation. If someone writes such a page, I'd be happy to link to it.

> Anyway for my current experiment I:
> Asked the Ubuntu Software Center to remove their Etoys.
> Went to the download page by following the plugin here link.
> Pressed etoys to go.
>
> To this Ubuntu offered to save the file or open it in the archive viewer.
> I chose archive viewer.
> Which gave me the option of extracting the file (it did not offer to install it as it will sometimes do)
> So I now have the extracted folder and contents in a subdirectory of my home page.
>
> At this point I have run out of things I know to do from what I have been told. So what is the next step in the installation process? Where on the squeakland sight should those directions appear?

Not sure which installation process you are talking about. The only Linux version Squeakland provides for the time being is Etoys-To-Go. It does not need installation.

> As I remember when I went to the sight to download etoys for the 8.04 version of Ubuntu, the site figured out what kind of a computer and OS I had, offered to download the appropriate things and I ended up with both a etoys button in an education folder and programming folder, plus when I launched a project in Firefox I had the plugin installed as well.

Maybe that was when Squeakland still provided Linux packages.

> So how do I get back to that experience? Also how despite the obstacles do I install etoys and firefox plugin on the fresh installation of 10.04 Ubuntu?

Learn about how the plugin works under Linux, and make it work. Alternatively, get someone to make it work.

Here is how it works in general:

* there is a plugin, "npsqueak.so", in the Squeak VM package, that needs to be symlinked where the browser expects plugins
* when the browser wants to display a page with an embedded Etoys project, it launches the plugin
* the plugin executes the "npsqueakrun" script, passing some parameters to establish a communication channel between the plugin and squeak
* that script runs the Squeak VM with an image, instructing the VM to redirect the output into the plugin's window
* the image then loads the project

It's not really rocket science ;)

> Finally, I want to acknowledge that the tone of these post is complaining. That currently is my helping role as observant bug tracker. I only get to see things from the perspective of a neophyte for a short period of time. Bert, your timely and knowledgeable responses are what keep me hopeful that both our times and energies will lead to some useful results.
>
> Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

Well I'm willing to explain how it should work. But the actual packaging work needs to be done by someone else.

It's great you are insisting on getting the packages fixed, though. In the past there was a cheap way out, namely the packages provided by Squeakland itself. That is one of the reason I don't want to provide them anymore (besides having no time to do so) - I believe they actually prevented people from lobbying their distros to make proper packages. So go on lobbying :)

- Bert -