Re: Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14

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Re: Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14

EuanM
Thanks for the pointer to Morphic3 and its documentation.  I'll try to
contribute more naive-user questions :-)

What is the state of development of Morphic3?
  - complete stable codebase?
  - stable codebase for substantial parts, with fuurther extensions in
development?
  - central aspects still under development?
  - a design concept, coding yet to begin?

e.g. The documentation starts off with "Morphic3 *will have* scalable
graphics".  This might mean that Morphic3 works now, but does not yet
have scalable graphics.  Or it might just mean Morphic3 does not (yet)
work.

Generally, whenever I'm looking at a new platform, system, or package,
I am initially looking for answers of the type
   "Can I use it now?
        No /
        Yes /
        Yes to an extent, but..."

I'm very happy to write up aspects of the system/package as
fully-formed documentation, especially documentation for naive-users.
Please let me know if there specific places where this help is
already-known to be particularly needed.

I look forward (in the long run?) to trying Cuis and Morphic3 on Raspberry Pi.

On 11 November 2015 at 18:00,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Send Cuis mailing list submissions to
>         [hidden email]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         [hidden email]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         [hidden email]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Cuis digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Simple Morphic (Euan Mee)
>    2. Re: Simple Morphic (KenD)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:13:57 +0000
> From: Euan Mee <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Cuis] Simple Morphic
> Message-ID:
>         <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> What is the current state of development of Simple Morph?
>
> Is there any documentation on how to use it, or is it allInTheCode ?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:13:58 -0800
> From: KenD <[hidden email]>
> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Euan Mee <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Cuis] Simple Morphic
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:13:57 +0000
> Euan Mee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> What is the current state of development of Simple Morph?
>
> I am not sure what you mean by Simple Morph.
>
> Cuis has been taking steps toward Morphic3:
>
> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev/blob/master/Documentation/NotesOnMorphic.md
>
> The MorphExtension class was removed.  (We have Morph Properties).
>
> Morphs have float rather than integer location coordinates.
>
> Morph location is relative to their owner, not the screen.
>
> These are relatively small changes to get used to.
>
> More radical are some of the other simplifications in the system.
>
> The best example here is probably Layout.
>
> LayoutMorphs do just that for their submorphs.  A LayoutSpec is attached to individual Morphs to tell their container how they want to be layed out.  See the class comments.
>
> The code in LayoutMorph is much smaller (see LayoutMorph>>layoutSubmorphsHorizontallyIn:) than corresponding layout code in Squeak or Pharo.
>
> See LayoutMorph class examples.
>
> If you git clone the Morphic-Misc1 package and load it you can get Layout editors:
>
> Open a shell and cd to the directory containing Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev
>
>   git clone https://github.com/KenDickey/Cuis-Smalltalk-Morphic-Misc1.git
>
> Go to Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev, open an image and use a Workspace to require the package:
>
>   Feature require:  'Morphic-Misc1'.
>
> Then use the LayoutMorph class examples, select (sub) morphs, open a LayoutMorph Editor (or a LayoutSpec Editor) and play with the settings.
>
> Note that these editors are "one-shot" and will close after setting or cancelling, so click on the "push pin" in the upper right corner to keep them open.
>
> If you have several editors open, you can use the "Show Halo" button to see which Morph an editor is adjusting.
>
>> Is there any documentation on how to use it, or is it allInTheCode ?
>
> See the above URL and continue to ask questions.  We need to make the documentation better over time and questions are very helpful here.
>
> --
> -KenD
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cuis mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14
> ************************************

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Re: Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14

KenD
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 19:02:54 +0000
Euan Mee <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is the state of development of Morphic3?

Juan is working on an optimized MorphicCanvas to replace BitBltCanvas.

There is some old, unoptimized sample code in Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev/Experimental which is not for the faint of heart.

Cuis currently uses BitBltCanvas, so the graphics do not yet scale.

Most of the other code works fine.  The location changes to Morph were a big step.

Juan has been slimming down the Cuis image so that it should be possible to rapidly grow when scalable.  Slim down .. grow .. scale  ;^)

Note the small number of classes in the base image:
"2236 eToys 5.0"
"2511 Squeak 4.4"
"2175 Squeak 4.5"
"2244 Squeak 5.0"
"3226 Pharo 2.0"
"4020 Pharo 3.0"
"4924 Pharo 4.0"
  vvv
" 504 Cuis 4.2 (rev 2568)"
  ^^^

Juan, anything to add/correct here?

--
-KenD

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Re: Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14

Juan Vuletich-4
In reply to this post by EuanM
Hi Euan,

On 11/11/2015 4:02 PM, Euan Mee wrote:
> Thanks for the pointer to Morphic3 and its documentation.  I'll try to
> contribute more naive-user questions :-)
>
> What is the state of development of Morphic3?
>    - complete stable codebase?
>    - stable codebase for substantial parts, with fuurther extensions in
> development?
>    - central aspects still under development?
>    - a design concept, coding yet to begin?

I think "central aspects still under development" is a fair way to say it.
If you want to take a look, it is in the 'Experimental' folder. Feel
free to ask questions.

> e.g. The documentation starts off with "Morphic3 *will have* scalable
> graphics".  This might mean that Morphic3 works now, but does not yet
> have scalable graphics.  Or it might just mean Morphic3 does not (yet)
> work.
>

Well, we have been evolving Morphic in Cuis, towards the direction shown
by some experiments I did in 2009, for quite some time. This is
currently using BitBltCanvas to draw, that can not do proper scalable
graphics. The Morphic3Canvas in 'Experimental' can do this.

> Generally, whenever I'm looking at a new platform, system, or package,
> I am initially looking for answers of the type
>     "Can I use it now?
>          No /
>          Yes /
>          Yes to an extent, but..."
>
> I'm very happy to write up aspects of the system/package as
> fully-formed documentation, especially documentation for naive-users.
> Please let me know if there specific places where this help is
> already-known to be particularly needed.

Morphic 3 is ready to be studied by really interested ones. Not at all
ready for a naive- user. On the question of where this help is needed,
I'm not the best to answer. Maybe others in the community answer this,
or, just use the system for some project, and you'll quickly find the
places where a new user (you!) could use better documentation.

> I look forward (in the long run?) to trying Cuis and Morphic3 on Raspberry Pi.
>

Well, Morphic 3 might be more expensive than BitBltCanvas, and I don't
know if it will run reasonably well on a Pi....

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

> On 11 November 2015 at 18:00,<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Send Cuis mailing list submissions to
>>          [hidden email]
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>          http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>          [hidden email]
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>          [hidden email]
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Cuis digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>     1. Simple Morphic (Euan Mee)
>>     2. Re: Simple Morphic (KenD)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:13:57 +0000
>> From: Euan Mee<[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Cuis] Simple Morphic
>> Message-ID:
>>          <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> What is the current state of development of Simple Morph?
>>
>> Is there any documentation on how to use it, or is it allInTheCode ?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:13:58 -0800
>> From: KenD<[hidden email]>
>> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk<[hidden email]>
>> Cc: Euan Mee<[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Cuis] Simple Morphic
>> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:13:57 +0000
>> Euan Mee<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> What is the current state of development of Simple Morph?
>> I am not sure what you mean by Simple Morph.
>>
>> Cuis has been taking steps toward Morphic3:
>>
>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev/blob/master/Documentation/NotesOnMorphic.md
>>
>> The MorphExtension class was removed.  (We have Morph Properties).
>>
>> Morphs have float rather than integer location coordinates.
>>
>> Morph location is relative to their owner, not the screen.
>>
>> These are relatively small changes to get used to.
>>
>> More radical are some of the other simplifications in the system.
>>
>> The best example here is probably Layout.
>>
>> LayoutMorphs do just that for their submorphs.  A LayoutSpec is attached to individual Morphs to tell their container how they want to be layed out.  See the class comments.
>>
>> The code in LayoutMorph is much smaller (see LayoutMorph>>layoutSubmorphsHorizontallyIn:) than corresponding layout code in Squeak or Pharo.
>>
>> See LayoutMorph class examples.
>>
>> If you git clone the Morphic-Misc1 package and load it you can get Layout editors:
>>
>> Open a shell and cd to the directory containing Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev
>>
>>    git clone https://github.com/KenDickey/Cuis-Smalltalk-Morphic-Misc1.git
>>
>> Go to Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev, open an image and use a Workspace to require the package:
>>
>>    Feature require:  'Morphic-Misc1'.
>>
>> Then use the LayoutMorph class examples, select (sub) morphs, open a LayoutMorph Editor (or a LayoutSpec Editor) and play with the settings.
>>
>> Note that these editors are "one-shot" and will close after setting or cancelling, so click on the "push pin" in the upper right corner to keep them open.
>>
>> If you have several editors open, you can use the "Show Halo" button to see which Morph an editor is adjusting.
>>
>>> Is there any documentation on how to use it, or is it allInTheCode ?
>> See the above URL and continue to ask questions.  We need to make the documentation better over time and questions are very helpful here.
>>
>> --
>> -KenD
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cuis mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14
>> ************************************
> _______________________________________________
> Cuis mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>


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Re: Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14

Juan Vuletich-4
In reply to this post by KenD
On 11/11/2015 8:56 PM, KenD wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 19:02:54 +0000
> Euan Mee<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> What is the state of development of Morphic3?
> Juan is working on an optimized MorphicCanvas to replace BitBltCanvas.
>
> There is some old, unoptimized sample code in Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev/Experimental which is not for the faint of heart.
>
> Cuis currently uses BitBltCanvas, so the graphics do not yet scale.
>
> Most of the other code works fine.  The location changes to Morph were a big step.
>
> Juan has been slimming down the Cuis image so that it should be possible to rapidly grow when scalable.  Slim down .. grow .. scale  ;^)
>
> Note the small number of classes in the base image:
> "2236 eToys 5.0"
> "2511 Squeak 4.4"
> "2175 Squeak 4.5"
> "2244 Squeak 5.0"
> "3226 Pharo 2.0"
> "4020 Pharo 3.0"
> "4924 Pharo 4.0"
>    vvv
> " 504 Cuis 4.2 (rev 2568)"
>    ^^^
>
> Juan, anything to add/correct here?

No :) All you say is right. Just that besides scaling, also rotation is
missing in BitBltCanvas.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

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Re: Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14

Thierry Goubier
In reply to this post by Juan Vuletich-4
Hi Juan, Euan,

thanks for the update on Morphic3. I'll have a look one of these days,
when I'll have something interesting to show running on Cuis.

Regards,

Thierry

Le 16/11/2015 21:25, Juan Vuletich a écrit :

> Hi Euan,
>
> On 11/11/2015 4:02 PM, Euan Mee wrote:
>> Thanks for the pointer to Morphic3 and its documentation.  I'll try to
>> contribute more naive-user questions :-)
>>
>> What is the state of development of Morphic3?
>>    - complete stable codebase?
>>    - stable codebase for substantial parts, with fuurther extensions in
>> development?
>>    - central aspects still under development?
>>    - a design concept, coding yet to begin?
>
> I think "central aspects still under development" is a fair way to say it.
> If you want to take a look, it is in the 'Experimental' folder. Feel
> free to ask questions.
>
>> e.g. The documentation starts off with "Morphic3 *will have* scalable
>> graphics".  This might mean that Morphic3 works now, but does not yet
>> have scalable graphics.  Or it might just mean Morphic3 does not (yet)
>> work.
>>
>
> Well, we have been evolving Morphic in Cuis, towards the direction shown
> by some experiments I did in 2009, for quite some time. This is
> currently using BitBltCanvas to draw, that can not do proper scalable
> graphics. The Morphic3Canvas in 'Experimental' can do this.
>
>> Generally, whenever I'm looking at a new platform, system, or package,
>> I am initially looking for answers of the type
>>     "Can I use it now?
>>          No /
>>          Yes /
>>          Yes to an extent, but..."
>>
>> I'm very happy to write up aspects of the system/package as
>> fully-formed documentation, especially documentation for naive-users.
>> Please let me know if there specific places where this help is
>> already-known to be particularly needed.
>
> Morphic 3 is ready to be studied by really interested ones. Not at all
> ready for a naive- user. On the question of where this help is needed,
> I'm not the best to answer. Maybe others in the community answer this,
> or, just use the system for some project, and you'll quickly find the
> places where a new user (you!) could use better documentation.
>
>> I look forward (in the long run?) to trying Cuis and Morphic3 on
>> Raspberry Pi.
>>
>
> Well, Morphic 3 might be more expensive than BitBltCanvas, and I don't
> know if it will run reasonably well on a Pi....
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>
>> On 11 November 2015 at 18:00,<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Send Cuis mailing list submissions to
>>>          [hidden email]
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>          http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>          [hidden email]
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>          [hidden email]
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Cuis digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>     1. Simple Morphic (Euan Mee)
>>>     2. Re: Simple Morphic (KenD)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:13:57 +0000
>>> From: Euan Mee<[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Cuis] Simple Morphic
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> What is the current state of development of Simple Morph?
>>>
>>> Is there any documentation on how to use it, or is it allInTheCode ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:13:58 -0800
>>> From: KenD<[hidden email]>
>>> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk<[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: Euan Mee<[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Cuis] Simple Morphic
>>> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:13:57 +0000
>>> Euan Mee<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the current state of development of Simple Morph?
>>> I am not sure what you mean by Simple Morph.
>>>
>>> Cuis has been taking steps toward Morphic3:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev/blob/master/Documentation/NotesOnMorphic.md
>>>
>>>
>>> The MorphExtension class was removed.  (We have Morph Properties).
>>>
>>> Morphs have float rather than integer location coordinates.
>>>
>>> Morph location is relative to their owner, not the screen.
>>>
>>> These are relatively small changes to get used to.
>>>
>>> More radical are some of the other simplifications in the system.
>>>
>>> The best example here is probably Layout.
>>>
>>> LayoutMorphs do just that for their submorphs.  A LayoutSpec is
>>> attached to individual Morphs to tell their container how they want
>>> to be layed out.  See the class comments.
>>>
>>> The code in LayoutMorph is much smaller (see
>>> LayoutMorph>>layoutSubmorphsHorizontallyIn:) than corresponding
>>> layout code in Squeak or Pharo.
>>>
>>> See LayoutMorph class examples.
>>>
>>> If you git clone the Morphic-Misc1 package and load it you can get
>>> Layout editors:
>>>
>>> Open a shell and cd to the directory containing Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev
>>>
>>>    git clone
>>> https://github.com/KenDickey/Cuis-Smalltalk-Morphic-Misc1.git
>>>
>>> Go to Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev, open an image and use a Workspace to
>>> require the package:
>>>
>>>    Feature require:  'Morphic-Misc1'.
>>>
>>> Then use the LayoutMorph class examples, select (sub) morphs, open a
>>> LayoutMorph Editor (or a LayoutSpec Editor) and play with the settings.
>>>
>>> Note that these editors are "one-shot" and will close after setting
>>> or cancelling, so click on the "push pin" in the upper right corner
>>> to keep them open.
>>>
>>> If you have several editors open, you can use the "Show Halo" button
>>> to see which Morph an editor is adjusting.
>>>
>>>> Is there any documentation on how to use it, or is it allInTheCode ?
>>> See the above URL and continue to ask questions.  We need to make the
>>> documentation better over time and questions are very helpful here.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -KenD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cuis mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of Cuis Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14
>>> ************************************
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cuis mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cuis mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>


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