Re: I can't learn SmallTalk :(

> I seriously want to learn SmallTalk but don't know why the hurdle.
> I installed VisualWorks 5i.3 (from a free CD) and bought 3 books
>
> - On To SmallTalk
> - SmallTalk with Style
> - SmallTalk, Objects and Design
>
> I just stare at the canvas, and go in circles in the help manuals not
> achieving anything.
>
> Meanwhile I had no problems in learning other languages .. Mostly
> Windows orientated. Such as Visual C++, Java, and standards like
> XML/XSL

>"Henry GILBERT" <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> I seriously want to learn SmallTalk but don't know why the hurdle.
>> I installed VisualWorks 5i.3 (from a free CD) and bought 3 books
>>
>> - On To SmallTalk
>> - SmallTalk with Style
>> - SmallTalk, Objects and Design
>>
>> I just stare at the canvas, and go in circles in the help manuals not
>> achieving anything.
>>
>> Meanwhile I had no problems in learning other languages .. Mostly
>> Windows orientated. Such as Visual C++, Java, and standards like
>> XML/XSL
>
>Sounds like me if you remove Java and add Python to the list.
>
>
>>
>> Could it be SmallTalk is too alien - transverse - counter-intuitive
>> (I can sense a lot of people protesting now) ... to the common
>> programmer's mind?
>
>I don't think it is any more difficult than any other language if you
>didn't know how to program, it just doesn't cater to the
>C/Basic/Pascal upbringing that most of us have. (Does these languages
>have a common root, Algol?). I have done some Lisp hacking the last
>year or so and it feels just as alien in the beginning.
>
>> I am still eager to crack it sometime, and would appreciate any
>> help. Only if they had some "visual" help tutorial in the web, I
>> think I would do better. I also looked SmallTalk courses in London -
>> but none do it on an individual basis.
>>
>> I have this feeling that learning SmallTalk would help me become a
>> better developer/analyst.
>
>I have too, I am not a Smalltalk programmer by any means yet. But I am
>beginning to grok it little by little.
>
>
>> So please anyone direct me, how to get properly started.
>
>The only thing I can do here is to assume that you are similar to me,
>and outline the path I have taken.
>
>Buy Dolphin Smalltalk Companion, because:
>1. You will get the latest Dolphin version for free with it.
>2. You will need it to fathom the MVP GUI framework in Dolphin.
>3. Dolphin is very slick and cool, and is a completely win32 smalltalk
>so that things like COM are directly supported.
>
>Install Dolphin from the CD that is provided with Dolphin Smalltalk
>Companion and put the book away for now.
>
>Get the basic feel for smalltalk syntax by doing the tutorials from
>www.object-arts.com. Stop when you get to the GUI bits. I say so
>because I got confused myself when using the object arts GUI tutorials
>and left Smalltalk alone for a year or so after that.
>
>I find that one of the things that made it so hard to learn Smalltalk
>for a programmer like me, is that I have to learn have to control
>program logic from scratch. When learning python I just had to find
>out what the syntax for if statements where. The statement itself was
>basically the same as in C++, so no problem.
>
>So accept that you have to be a dummy again, and go through the
>object-arts tutorials real slow and try to grok what you are doing.
>
>Start on the Dolphin book. The book goes *really* thouroghly through
>what you do to set up a GUI application in Dolphin Smalltalk. Check
>out http://www.tedbracht.co.uk/ to see the errata so you don't get
>confused. After a couple of chapters you will begin to get the feel
>for how the classes in MVP interact with each other.
>
>For some fun, try out the COM support in Dolphin. It is really
>great.
>
>Good luck, I think that you will be very pleased when things start to click.
>
>--
>
>Vennlig hilsen
>
>Syver Enstad

>
> >>> I seriously want to learn SmallTalk but don't know why the hurdle.
> >>> I installed VisualWorks 5i.3 (from a free CD) and bought 3 books
> [...snip...]
> >>> I just stare at the canvas, and go in circles in the help manuals not
> >>> achieving anything.
>
> 'Staring at the canvas' might be your problem - trying to learn a new
> language *and* a new gui simultaneously can be confusing. Why not
> concentrate on workspaces and the transcript window for the moment, and
> write some command line code. That way you're only learning one thing at
> a time. You can move onto gui code once you're slightly more comfortable
> with the language.
>
>
>                                 Steve
>
> --
> Work as if you were in the earlier days of a better nation.