Re: New to Smalltalk; which implementation?

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:16:50 +0000, Chris Uppal wrote:

If I knew what "Drifting off a little" meant, I could deduce
what "classic elegance" in Smalltalk means.

Enlighten me, Chris?

s.

Stefan,

> If I knew what "Drifting off a little" meant, I could deduce
> what "classic elegance" in Smalltalk means.

Well, I've said before that the Dolphin codebase is the either the best written
large-scale piece of software I've worked with, or the largest well-written
piece of software I've worked with.  This is the result of well designed
abstractions, properly factored, and expressed in clear code[*].  It's a good
code base to work with as a user, to learn from in the sense of learning about
the system, and to learn from in the sense of learning how to program
Smalltalk. That last aspect was what I particularly had in mind when I made
that comment on c.l.s.

([*] Not without exceptions -- of course, nobody is perfect -- but true to an
impressive extent.)

What little I have seen of other Smalltalks' class libraries has not, in
general, impressed me similarly.

The rider about "drifting off a little" was because, although I'm still
pretty-much of the same opinion, it's my impression that  OA's standards have
changed a little in recent years (please notice that I do /not/ use the word
"slipped" -- that would be something else entirely).  I don't think that the
newer code is as good for learning from (in either of the above senses) as used
to be the case.

I hope that doesn't come across as too critical -- especially just now when
Andy and Blair are presumably working hard, trying to get D6 shipping, and may
be just a little sensitive...

    -- chris

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:03:44 +0000, Chris Uppal wrote:

>> If I knew what "Drifting off a little" meant, I could deduce what
>> "classic elegance" in Smalltalk means.
>
> The rider about "drifting off a little" was because, although I'm still
> pretty-much of the same opinion, it's my impression that  OA's standards
> have changed a little in recent years (please notice that I do /not/ use
> the word "slipped" -- that would be something else entirely).  I don't
> think that the newer code is as good for learning from (in either of the
> above senses) as used to be the case.

While working on my current project, I found some methods which were
easy to understand and also some methods, which gave me a hard time,
mainly because I was/am lacking the concepts behind it. Most often
they were in classes without class comment.

So maybe "recent" classes just require more background knowledge than
we (as non-designers) usually have. But, hey, getting to know your
work-mates is part of the fun, isn't it?

>
> I hope that doesn't come across as too critical -- especially just now
> when Andy and Blair are presumably working hard, trying to get D6
> shipping, and may be just a little sensitive...

Sorry for my bad timing ...

Heh ... imagine the next announcement from Andy reading like:
"Due to Chris and Stefan's nitpicking, we have decided to skip the
release of D6 and rewrite D7 from scratch."

I wonder which one of us would be the first to be reached by the
lynch mob :-D

s.

"Stefan Schmiedl" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:03:44 +0000, Chris Uppal wrote:
> I wonder which one of us would be the first to be reached by the
> lynch mob :-D

If you look at your window, you will recognize me as a bit larger looking
chap, marrily waving his torch. ;)

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:51:25 +0100, rush wrote:

> "Stefan Schmiedl" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:03:44 +0000, Chris Uppal wrote: I wonder which
>> one of us would be the first to be reached by the lynch mob :-D
>
> If you look at your window, you will recognize me as a bit larger looking
> chap, marrily waving his torch. ;)
>

The one with a bearskull as cap or the wolfman?

s.

"Stefan Schmiedl" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> The one with a bearskull as cap or the wolfman?

bearskull, wolfman are such wussies. But I have to confess, as hours of
22.11 were passing one by one, and OA site kept diplaying same old "closed
for preparations" message, I strated to suspect that you actually did put
some strong spell on it.

But now everything is fine!

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/