Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
+1 for newcomer consideration. Nautilus is obviously well liked by the
> I started thinking on next release of Pharo 1.4 (which will be code named "summer", not an ugly number).
> I've been monitoring the list and I think there are some things to improve, so I'm planning to add this things to new one click:
> - pre-load OmniBrowser.
> Why I'm suggesting this? Because nobody seems to notice that OB is actually working on 1.4 and everybody complains that "you cannot have refactors, blabla", which is just not true, but is causing a lot of bad feeling around what is a great release (yes, I'm making some constructive criticism about the list attitude, but also about our/mine communicational capabilities).
> Original idea was to allow people to choose OB or Nautilus, since the last one will be the browser for Pharo in the future, but truth is that Nautilus is still a "technology preview"... and it will be there for all those like me, who want to use it.
> Finally, most important issue is that newcomers expect to have a full environment working out of the box, and they don'y know how to use the Configuration Browser.
more experienced users who can deal better with the odd issue and
modification that pops up, but an older code base might be better for
new users for now. Thanks for the advance notice. I've just got to the
point in the 1.4 review of Pharo By Example that I am taking snapshots
of the browser and tossing up which browser to include. I was leaning
towards using only the basic 1.4-built-in browser to try to make each
chapter independent of previous ones - but much happier to snapshot OB.
So unless any objections arise, I will do PBE with OB. These will need
redoing for the 2.0 look and feel anyway, and PBE can be changed to
> - pre-load Spotlight
> Yeah, another small tool who can make your life easy.
> Why? just because I'm tired of seeing all of you typing class names at workspace and press cmd+b later... or using some more uncomfortable ways to reach your code.
That would be me. I'm not familiar with Spotlight but it sounds like
I'll like it.
> If you still prefer those ways, is up to you ;)
> So far, this and the bugfixes we already made (and some more)...
> What do you think?
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This aligns somewhat with my own view. I see a lot of positive feedback about Nautilus from those that are experienced and confident to deal with any remaining rough edges - but if a few do remain, then newcomers are left wondering "what have I done wrong" since they don't know any better.On Jun 17, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Ben Coman wrote:Is Nautilus under any consideration to be the default browser for your summer release at all, or are you firmly committed to OB? I need to know this to continue updating Pharo By Example for 1.4.this is an interesting and important issue (much more than codenames, he). I will extend my latest answer, using what I know (maybe Benjamin has another idea, and would be good to know it): Nautilus is in development, there are some important functionalities that are not there yet, and some others that does not work properly. Refactors and Traits is the most important things I can think of now, but there are probably more. Also, Nautilus relies in RPackage, which was not ready for 1.4 (but will be ready for 2.0). And some other packages (like OB itself) can be not-loadable after installing Nautilus. To make all of this work in 1.4 can be a huge job (at least for RPackage, it is, I don't know for Nautilus). I know that RPackage cannot be backported without a lot of effort, but I don't know if Nautilus for 1.4 can be adapted to not use RPackage easily (which AFAIK, should be necessary to make it work propertly). So, I will like your work (which is IMO terribly important) would take Nautilus. But I also think that loading it for default in 1.4 is probably too much. Frankly, I don't know what to do now :) Esteban
A few other considerations from my perspective...
- The existing PBE uses snapshots of OB, so there is less work to update to 1.4 with OB than with Nautilus.
- I haven't used Nautilus much yet (though I plan to) and would not be confident to write about it at this time.
- Each chapter should be self contained. An instruction how to load OB in Chapter 1 being required for a later chapter is not ideal.
Now I am not in a position to dictate, but to draw a line in the sand for me to proceed, unless vetoed I shall use OB for the 1.4 update to Pharo By Example. For the inclusion of examples like BouncingAtomsMorph I am planning to have a ConfigurationOfPBE produce a PBE.image from a vanilla Pharo1.4.image, which could include OB if required. So it is not essential for PBE to have OB as the default browser for 1.4.1, but would still be nice for newcomers to match the documentation.
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