Re: [Pharo-users] Learning GT - Glamorous Toolkit

> Hi Jimmie,
>
> Question about GT should be sent to the moose mailing list.
> What do you have in mind with GT? Do you have an object model to explore?
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have watched most all of the videos about GT.
>> I am interested in learning how to use the Glamorous Toolkit.
>> I am failing to find a beginning place for learning how to use and program GT.
>>
>> I am probably overlooking it some where.
>> I have downloaded the gtoolkit.image to begin learning.
>>
>> I am currently browsing code to learn what I can from there.
>>
>> Any advise on documentation or best way to proceed in learning GT greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jimmie
>>

> On Sep 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Alexandre,
>
> I have added moose-dev to this reply.
>
> I do not at this time have any particular object models that I require exploring. I have simply watched the videos on the browser, inspector, etc.. Most anything Doru did. :)
>
> I am wanting to put a GUI together for a database I am building for my wife. At this point it is simple and will be all contained in the image. This is a pretty conventional thing at this moment.
>
> I have done nothing GUI oriented in Pharo and I need to learn those skills. GT seems to be an awesome tool enabling very creative things.
>
> At a later date I will have some more adventurous things to try. But my wife's database is where I want to begin learning.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jimmie
>
> On 09/24/2015 01:11 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>> Hi Jimmie,
>>
>> Question about GT should be sent to the moose mailing list.
>> What do you have in mind with GT? Do you have an object model to explore?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexandre
>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have watched most all of the videos about GT.
>>> I am interested in learning how to use the Glamorous Toolkit.
>>> I am failing to find a beginning place for learning how to use and program GT.
>>>
>>> I am probably overlooking it some where.
>>> I have downloaded the gtoolkit.image to begin learning.
>>>
>>> I am currently browsing code to learn what I can from there.
>>>
>>> Any advise on documentation or best way to proceed in learning GT greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jimmie
>>>
>
>

> The way I see GT, is that you do not need to think too much about GUI. One very first step is to build a class-model to describes the data stored in your data base. Once you have this class-model, then navigating, visualization, and querying come literally for free.
>
> Does this make sense? Do you need help to define the class-model?
>
> Alexandre
>
>
>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Alexandre,
>>
>> I have added moose-dev to this reply.
>>
>> I do not at this time have any particular object models that I require exploring. I have simply watched the videos on the browser, inspector, etc.. Most anything Doru did. :)
>>
>> I am wanting to put a GUI together for a database I am building for my wife. At this point it is simple and will be all contained in the image. This is a pretty conventional thing at this moment.
>>
>> I have done nothing GUI oriented in Pharo and I need to learn those skills. GT seems to be an awesome tool enabling very creative things.
>>
>> At a later date I will have some more adventurous things to try. But my wife's database is where I want to begin learning.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jimmie
>>
>> On 09/24/2015 01:11 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>> Hi Jimmie,
>>>
>>> Question about GT should be sent to the moose mailing list.
>>> What do you have in mind with GT? Do you have an object model to explore?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I have watched most all of the videos about GT.
>>>> I am interested in learning how to use the Glamorous Toolkit.
>>>> I am failing to find a beginning place for learning how to use and program GT.
>>>>
>>>> I am probably overlooking it some where.
>>>> I have downloaded the gtoolkit.image to begin learning.
>>>>
>>>> I am currently browsing code to learn what I can from there.
>>>>
>>>> Any advise on documentation or best way to proceed in learning GT greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Jimmie
>>>>
>>

>
> Thanks.
>
> Jimmie
>
>
>
> On 09/24/2015 01:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>> The way I see GT, is that you do not need to think too much about GUI. One very first step is to build a class-model to describes the data stored in your data base. Once you have this class-model, then navigating, visualization, and querying come literally for free.
>>
>> Does this make sense? Do you need help to define the class-model?
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Alexandre,
>>>
>>> I have added moose-dev to this reply.
>>>
>>> I do not at this time have any particular object models that I require exploring. I have simply watched the videos on the browser, inspector, etc.. Most anything Doru did. :)
>>>
>>> I am wanting to put a GUI together for a database I am building for my wife. At this point it is simple and will be all contained in the image. This is a pretty conventional thing at this moment.
>>>
>>> I have done nothing GUI oriented in Pharo and I need to learn those skills. GT seems to be an awesome tool enabling very creative things.
>>>
>>> At a later date I will have some more adventurous things to try. But my wife's database is where I want to begin learning.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jimmie
>>>
>>> On 09/24/2015 01:11 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>> Hi Jimmie,
>>>>
>>>> Question about GT should be sent to the moose mailing list.
>>>> What do you have in mind with GT? Do you have an object model to explore?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have watched most all of the videos about GT.
>>>>> I am interested in learning how to use the Glamorous Toolkit.
>>>>> I am failing to find a beginning place for learning how to use and program GT.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am probably overlooking it some where.
>>>>> I have downloaded the gtoolkit.image to begin learning.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am currently browsing code to learn what I can from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advise on documentation or best way to proceed in learning GT greatly appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jimmie
>>>>>
>>>
>
>

>> I can see navigating, visualization and querying. But what about adding, editing and removing objects? Is GT the wrong tool for this aspect?
> No, Glamour offer ways to easily build an UI. My advice is to not focus too much on the UI aspect at the beginning of your project. The reason is that the UI is very fragile during the inception of a project: UI changes quickly and are time-consuming to produce.
>
>> I am not clear on the class-model. Information or pointers to documentation would be great.
> What I meant is the following. If you have a data base table that has the following column titles:
> name,parent,age,location,country
>
> Then maybe you can define a class Person, with one instance variable to a parent, another for a location. You can have a class City with a name and the country in which the city is.
> This is what I meant by having a class model.
> Once you have this, all the machinery is nearly free.
>
> Cheers
> Alexandre
>
>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jimmie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/24/2015 01:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>> The way I see GT, is that you do not need to think too much about GUI. One very first step is to build a class-model to describes the data stored in your data base. Once you have this class-model, then navigating, visualization, and querying come literally for free.
>>>
>>> Does this make sense? Do you need help to define the class-model?
>>>
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Alexandre,
>>>>
>>>> I have added moose-dev to this reply.
>>>>
>>>> I do not at this time have any particular object models that I require exploring. I have simply watched the videos on the browser, inspector, etc.. Most anything Doru did. :)
>>>>
>>>> I am wanting to put a GUI together for a database I am building for my wife. At this point it is simple and will be all contained in the image. This is a pretty conventional thing at this moment.
>>>>
>>>> I have done nothing GUI oriented in Pharo and I need to learn those skills. GT seems to be an awesome tool enabling very creative things.
>>>>
>>>> At a later date I will have some more adventurous things to try. But my wife's database is where I want to begin learning.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Jimmie
>>>>
>>>> On 09/24/2015 01:11 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jimmie,
>>>>>
>>>>> Question about GT should be sent to the moose mailing list.
>>>>> What do you have in mind with GT? Do you have an object model to explore?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have watched most all of the videos about GT.
>>>>>> I am interested in learning how to use the Glamorous Toolkit.
>>>>>> I am failing to find a beginning place for learning how to use and program GT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am probably overlooking it some where.
>>>>>> I have downloaded the gtoolkit.image to begin learning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently browsing code to learn what I can from there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any advise on documentation or best way to proceed in learning GT greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jimmie
>>>>>>
>>

> On Sep 24, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Okay, with that definition of class model. That is already done. This database, and I am using that term loosely is all in the image, in object collections. It will only contain a few 100 or 1000 items. I don't see a need at the moment to involve MongoDB or some other outside source. I will have an export/import mechanism for data safety.
>
> There at the moment is no data because there is no data entry that my wife can use. Which is why I am inquiring so that I can begin to build her a UI to begin data entry.
>
> Yes, I understand there could be much trial and error in building the UI. For me for this personal project, I am okay with that. I count that as part of my education. Along with any other of the many mistakes that I make that I can encounter.
>
> I am fully aware that I will potentially do my fair share of stupid while learning. The only cost here is my time. I am okay with that price. Hopefully at some point I will get better.
>
> So with that said, any pointers to building a data entry UI.
>
> Labels, fields, combobox, buttons, ...
>
> I could do this in a web form without to much problem. Which was somewhat I was exploring in my Pier question. But I thought I would give learning UI building in Pharo a try. It seems that GT is where UI things are moving. Just a perception. I could be wrong. If possible I prefer going with the future as opposed to legacy at this point.
>
> And ultimately I might end up going with a web ui, client server setup. But I would still like to know my in image UI options and where to learn. I have other projects I want to do.
>
> Thanks for engaging in the conversation. I appreciate your time and understanding.
>
> Jimmie
>
>
> On 09/24/2015 03:55 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>> I can see navigating, visualization and querying. But what about adding, editing and removing objects? Is GT the wrong tool for this aspect?
>> No, Glamour offer ways to easily build an UI. My advice is to not focus too much on the UI aspect at the beginning of your project. The reason is that the UI is very fragile during the inception of a project: UI changes quickly and are time-consuming to produce.
>>
>>> I am not clear on the class-model. Information or pointers to documentation would be great.
>> What I meant is the following. If you have a data base table that has the following column titles:
>> name,parent,age,location,country
>>
>> Then maybe you can define a class Person, with one instance variable to a parent, another for a location. You can have a class City with a name and the country in which the city is.
>> This is what I meant by having a class model.
>> Once you have this, all the machinery is nearly free.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Alexandre
>>
>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jimmie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/24/2015 01:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>> The way I see GT, is that you do not need to think too much about GUI. One very first step is to build a class-model to describes the data stored in your data base. Once you have this class-model, then navigating, visualization, and querying come literally for free.
>>>>
>>>> Does this make sense? Do you need help to define the class-model?
>>>>
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Alexandre,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have added moose-dev to this reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not at this time have any particular object models that I require exploring. I have simply watched the videos on the browser, inspector, etc.. Most anything Doru did. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am wanting to put a GUI together for a database I am building for my wife. At this point it is simple and will be all contained in the image. This is a pretty conventional thing at this moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have done nothing GUI oriented in Pharo and I need to learn those skills. GT seems to be an awesome tool enabling very creative things.
>>>>>
>>>>> At a later date I will have some more adventurous things to try. But my wife's database is where I want to begin learning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jimmie
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/24/2015 01:11 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Jimmie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question about GT should be sent to the moose mailing list.
>>>>>> What do you have in mind with GT? Do you have an object model to explore?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have watched most all of the videos about GT.
>>>>>>> I am interested in learning how to use the Glamorous Toolkit.
>>>>>>> I am failing to find a beginning place for learning how to use and program GT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am probably overlooking it some where.
>>>>>>> I have downloaded the gtoolkit.image to begin learning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am currently browsing code to learn what I can from there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any advise on documentation or best way to proceed in learning GT greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jimmie
>>>>>>>
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> On Sep 24, 2015, at 18:55, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Okay, with that definition of class model. That is already done. This database, and I am using that term loosely is all in the image, in object collections. It will only contain a few 100 or 1000 items. I don't see a need at the moment to involve MongoDB or some other outside source. I will have an export/import mechanism for data safety.
>
> There at the moment is no data because there is no data entry that my wife can use. Which is why I am inquiring so that I can begin to build her a UI to begin data entry.
>
> Yes, I understand there could be much trial and error in building the UI. For me for this personal project, I am okay with that. I count that as part of my education. Along with any other of the many mistakes that I make that I can encounter.
>
> I am fully aware that I will potentially do my fair share of stupid while learning. The only cost here is my time. I am okay with that price. Hopefully at some point I will get better.
>
> So with that said, any pointers to building a data entry UI.
>
> Labels, fields, combobox, buttons, ...
>
> I could do this in a web form without to much problem. Which was somewhat I was exploring in my Pier question. But I thought I would give learning UI building in Pharo a try. It seems that GT is where UI things are moving. Just a perception. I could be wrong. If possible I prefer going with the future as opposed to legacy at this point.
>
> And ultimately I might end up going with a web ui, client server setup. But I would still like to know my in image UI options and where to learn. I have other projects I want to do.
>
> Thanks for engaging in the conversation. I appreciate your time and understanding.
>
> Jimmie

> Jimmie, it looks like what you want to do here is build a standard user interface so actually what you want to do is to use Spec. Below are some pointers from a mail of Sven VC of some time ago. Note that you can now also integrate GT presentations as widgets inside a Spec UI, in case you want to reuse e.g. the GTInspector inside your UI.
>
> —snip—
>
> Here is a guide to documentation about Spec, most recent first.
>
>
> There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though):
>
>   http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG
>
> The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own).
>
>
> This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book:
>
>   https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgress/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Spec/Spec.pier.html
>
>
> Look in the image.
>
> Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them.
>
> The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn.
>
> —snip—
>
>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 18:55, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, with that definition of class model. That is already done. This database, and I am using that term loosely is all in the image, in object collections. It will only contain a few 100 or 1000 items. I don't see a need at the moment to involve MongoDB or some other outside source. I will have an export/import mechanism for data safety.
>>
>> There at the moment is no data because there is no data entry that my wife can use. Which is why I am inquiring so that I can begin to build her a UI to begin data entry.
>>
>> Yes, I understand there could be much trial and error in building the UI. For me for this personal project, I am okay with that. I count that as part of my education. Along with any other of the many mistakes that I make that I can encounter.
>>
>> I am fully aware that I will potentially do my fair share of stupid while learning. The only cost here is my time. I am okay with that price. Hopefully at some point I will get better.
>>
>> So with that said, any pointers to building a data entry UI.
>>
>> Labels, fields, combobox, buttons, ...
>>
>> I could do this in a web form without to much problem. Which was somewhat I was exploring in my Pier question. But I thought I would give learning UI building in Pharo a try. It seems that GT is where UI things are moving. Just a perception. I could be wrong. If possible I prefer going with the future as opposed to legacy at this point.
>>
>> And ultimately I might end up going with a web ui, client server setup. But I would still like to know my in image UI options and where to learn. I have other projects I want to do.
>>
>> Thanks for engaging in the conversation. I appreciate your time and understanding.
>>
>> Jimmie
>
>
> ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---
>
> Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
> PLEIAD and RyCh labs  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile
>
>

> On Sep 25, 2015, at 00:53, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Johan,
>
> Thanks for the information. That looks exactly what I was looking for.
> I see that this is current for Pharo 4.x.  Is this also the default UI builder in 5.x?
>
> I am in the middle of the video right. It has been very helpful.
> I will proceed through the video, the draft chapter and study the code.
>
> I look forward to learning this. The UI I need is as you described in the video, boring.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Jimmie