Re: [Pharo-users] Vote for the best Smalltalk book of the last 5 years...

>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> for some more or less conceivable reason, this hasn't made it to the
>>> Squeak list yet.
>>
>> like what?
>> I'm curious to learn.
>
> Like "conflict of interest"? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest)
>
> "A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other."
>
> Given that you're both the author of half of the books as well as president of ESUG (the organizer) it's pretty clear that you're stuck in a conflict of interest situation. Inviting the Pharo community to participate and not others only shows how deep the conflict of interest goes - the president of ESUG shouldn't favor individual communities, should he?

> Sorry Andreas. I don't see the conflict of interest.
> You cleary missunderstood the point.
>
> ESUG is just an engine for moving the Smalltalk community forward.
> The ESUG board will not decide which is the best book, this is why the vote is open to the community.
> Nevertheless, ESUG board members likewise other Smalltalkers can submit their work.
>
> We spent time listing books about Smalltalk.  And one of our conclusion is that the community is not very strong on this point, since we have only few authors (Andrès Valloud, Stéphane, ...). And we are lucky to have them.
>
> The goal of ESUG is to promote Smalltalk.
> Showing that  Smalltalk books are valuable and encouraging people to write is the point here.
>
> We want MORE SMALLTALK BOOKS!
> This is the message that everybody should remember.

> Serge,
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Serge Stinckwich
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think we need more translations also ! We have only Squeak by
>> Example in english and french. The same for Pharo by Example.
>> I was wondering that maybe this is difficult for people who don't have
>> the energy or the skill to  setup a repository for translation.
>> Maybe we should use an infrastructure like the one used for FLOSS
>> Manuals (http://en.flossmanuals.net/ ) in order to be able to launch
>> new translations very easily.
>>
>> What is the community thinking about that ?
>
> more translations: yes please, and I'm willing to contribute, but
> infrastructure is key. I don't have a clue about what is possible in
> terms of infrastructures for multi-language documentation/book
> projects, but if it provides good tracking capabilities (e.g.,
> alerting translators to languages B..Z when a substantial content-wise
> (not just language polishing) change is done in the version of
> language A), that would be worthwhile.

> Ah, a good old-fashioned "Stefane Ducasse is pissed" post. Hadn't had one in a while. You really need to *read* the Wikipedia article on conflict of interest before sending one of your hate mails. Conflicts of interest happen everywhere, to me, to you, to many people. The important part is to recognize them and to act accordingly. Here is the second paragraph from Wikipedia:
>
> "A conflict of interest can only exist if a person or testimony is entrusted with some impartiality; a modicum of trust is necessary to create it. The presence of a conflict of interest is independent from the execution of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs."
>
> It should be obvious that a person who is both organizer of a contest as well as participant is in a potential conflict of interest situation. If you recognize the conflict you can deal with it. It can be as simple as being explicit that you expect others to spread the invitation, for example by including "please redistribute this announcement as widely as possible in the Smalltalk community".
>
> Having said all that my original point still stands, namely that your invitation of the Pharo community specifically to vote is a clear expression of an unrecognized and unmitigated conflict of interest. You need to learn to recognize such situations and to act less emotionally. Conflicts of interests happen to all of us, they can be dealt with calmly and reasonably. And I expect the president of ESUG to be able to act in such a way.
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas
>
> On 9/7/2010 12:51 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> for some more or less conceivable reason, this hasn't made it to the
>>>>> Squeak list yet.
>>>>
>>>> like what?
>>>> I'm curious to learn.
>>>
>>> Like "conflict of interest"? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest)
>>>
>>> "A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other."
>>>
>>> Given that you're both the author of half of the books as well as president of ESUG (the organizer) it's pretty clear that you're stuck in a conflict of interest situation. Inviting the Pharo community to participate and not others only shows how deep the conflict of interest goes - the president of ESUG shouldn't favor individual communities, should he?
>>
>> Thanks andreas for this welcome mail.
>> of course that esug does not something is not the wish of everybody.
>> And people will vote not us. And this is not my fault if I spent my nights trying to get better a smalltalk world.
>> Everybody can write books: a book is a word + a word + a word a lot of time, even you can do it.
>> Now yesterday I had a difficult day
>> - five visitors (one chilean, one argentinian, noury, luc, mariano and a team of 9 people to synchronize).
>> You see I even forgot to send the mail to the seaside mailing-list.
>>
>> Thanks again for such encouragement.
>>
>> Stef (talking small).
>>
>

> Sorry Andreas. I don't see the conflict of interest.
> You cleary missunderstood the point.
>
> ESUG is just an engine for moving the Smalltalk community forward.
> The ESUG board will not decide which is the best book, this is why the vote is open to the community.
> Nevertheless, ESUG board members likewise other Smalltalkers can submit their work.
>
> We spent time listing books about Smalltalk.  And one of our conclusion is that the community is not very strong on this point, since we have only few authors (Andrès Valloud, Stéphane, ...). And we are lucky to have them.
>
> The goal of ESUG is to promote Smalltalk.
> Showing that  Smalltalk books are valuable and encouraging people to write is the point here.
>
> We want MORE SMALLTALK BOOKS!
> This is the message that everybody should remember.
>
> Noury
> http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury
> ----
> -18th International Smalltalk Joint Conference, September 13 -17 2010 Barcelona, Spain.
> http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2010
>
> -18ème Journées Francophones des Systèmes Multi-Agents (JFSMA), 18-20 october 2010, Mahdia, Tunisia.
> http://www.ltim.org/jfsma10/accueil.php
>
> -The SIMPAR 2010 International Workshop on Dynamic languages for RObotic and Sensors systems (DYROS), november 2010 - Darmstadt, Germany.
> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/wikka.php?wakka=DYROS10
>
> -4th Argentinian Smalltalks Conference November 11th - 13th, 2010, Concepción del Uruguay, Entre Ríos, Argentina
> http://www.fast.org.ar/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

> I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk that we can have a competition.
>
> Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG.
>
> Now let's spread the word and vote:
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q2LKKDT
>
> In case this got lost in the unnecessary side discussion, it's open to Wednesday, Sept. 15 noon CEST.
>
> - Bert -
>
> (Squeak Oversight Board member, speaking for myself)
>
>

> You should add Diego Gomez Deck book "Programando con Smalltalk". It's in spanish so it may not be the most popular but I believe it's a very nice book (although somewhat old now).
>
> It was the first smalltalk book I read and I learned the basics with it, so I'm very fond of this book :)
>
> Regarding the book translations discussion I think translating books is very important. Even though you still need to understand english to code smalltalk I still like to read books in my language. If you get the infrastructure right I'm willing to help translating stuff to spanish in my free time.
>
> Cheers
> Richo
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Bert Freudenberg wrote on Tue, 7 Sep 2010 14:50:22 +0200
> > I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk
> > that we can have a competition.
> >
> > Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG.
>
> I would also like to thank both ESUG for holding the contest and the
> authors for their very valuable contribution to the community. While
> Andreas does have a point about conflict of interest, it is unavoidable
> due to the small size of our community (we had quite a bit of conflict
> over this on squeak-dev last year, for example). It is like the small
> town where the same guy is the sheriff, the auto repairman, the judge,
> the fireman and so on.
>
> About the list itself, I did a quick search on Amazon for "smalltalk"
> and found these others:
>
> Discovering Smalltalk (The Benjamin/Cummings Series in Object-Oriented
> Software Engineering)
> by Wilf Lalonde
> (Paperback - Jan 17, 2008) - it seems to use Digitalk Smalltalk V, so
> this is probably a new edition of an old book
>
> Advances in Smalltalk: 14th International Smaltalk Conference, ISC 2006,
> Prague, Czech Republic, September 4-8, 2006, Revised Selected Papers
> (Lecture ... / Programming and Software Engineering)
> by Wolfgang De Meuter
> (Paperback - May 18, 2007)
>
> Grundkurs Smalltalk - Objektorientierung von Anfang an
> by Johannes Brauer
> (Perfect Paperback - 2008) - in German
>
> Einsamkeit überwinden mit der TALISUND Strategie. Neue Menschen kennen
> lernen - ohne Smalltalk.
> by einsamkeit-ueberwinden.org
> (Paperback - Mar 30, 2010) - in German
>
> The SICS Java Port Project: Automatic Translation of a Large Object
> Oriented System from Smalltalk to Java
> by Skarsaune Martin
> (Paperback - Sep 15, 2008) - I would expect zero votes for this one :-)
>
> Self-Sustaining Systems: First Workshop, S3 2008 Potsdam, Germany, May
> 15-16, 2008, Proceedings (Lecture Notes in Computer Science /
> Programming and Software Engineering)
> by Robert Hirschfeld and Kim Rose
> (Paperback - Nov 21, 2008)
>
> Smalltalk Programming Language Family: Smalltalk, Squeak, Seaside, Ibm
> Visualage, Scratch, Gnu Smalltalk, Visual Smalltalk Enterprise, Aida|web
> by Books LLC
> (Paperback - May 6, 2010)
>
> Dialecte Smalltalk: Squeak, Pharo, Gnu Smalltalk, Scratch, Bistro,
> Visualworks
> by Livres Groupe
> (Paperback - Aug 1, 2010) - in French
>
> Class-Based Programming Languages: Java, C++, Python, Eiffel, Smalltalk,
> Ruby, Simula, Common Lisp, Oberon, Clu, Objective-C, Squeak, Sather
> by Books LLC
> (Paperback - May 24, 2010)
>
> Dynamically-Typed Programming Languages: Lisp, Perl, Python, Mumps,
> Smalltalk, Ruby, Logo, Tcl, Self, Common Lisp, Objective-C, Rebol,
> Squeak
> by Books LLC
> (Paperback - May 26, 2010)
>
> Objektorientierte Programmiersprache: Php, Smalltalk-80, Embarcadero
> Delphi, Oberon, Eiffel, Cluster, Haxe, Common Lisp, Pow!, Scratch, Lpc
> by Bücher Gruppe
> (Paperback - Jul 22, 2010) - in German
>
> Langage Orienté Objet: Java, C++, Ada, Javascript, Ruby, Python,
> Codegear Delphi, Smalltalk, Kylix, Objective-C, Eiffel, Perl 6, Visual T
> Sharp
> by Livres Groupe
> (Paperback - Jul 29, 2010) - in French
>
> Object-Oriented Programming Languages: Cobol, Java, C++, Perl, Fortran,
> Python, Php, Eiffel, Smalltalk, Ruby, Blitz Basic, Turbo Pascal
> by Books LLC
> (Paperback - May 21, 2010)
>
> Ruby (Programming Language): Reflection (computer science), Dynamic
> programming language, Object-oriented programming language, Perl,
> Smalltalk, Yukihiro ... language), Ada (programming language)
> by Frederic P. Miller, Agnes F. Vandome, and John McBrewster
> (Paperback - Oct 12, 2009)
>
> I would say that the list is very reasonable without any of the above
> books. Since I haven't read any of these nor the ones in the survey, I
> won't be able to participate. But I find it great that people are still
> taking the time to write new books.
>
> -- Jecel
>
>
>
>

> Since we do not add french books we do not add spanish nor japanese ones.
>
> On Sep 8, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Ricardo Moran wrote:
>
>> You should add Diego Gomez Deck book "Programando con Smalltalk". It's in spanish so it may not be the most popular but I believe it's a very nice book (although somewhat old now).
>>
>> It was the first smalltalk book I read and I learned the basics with it, so I'm very fond of this book :)
>>
>> Regarding the book translations discussion I think translating books is very important. Even though you still need to understand english to code smalltalk I still like to read books in my language. If you get the infrastructure right I'm willing to help translating stuff to spanish in my free time.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Richo
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Bert Freudenberg wrote on Tue, 7 Sep 2010 14:50:22 +0200
>>> I for one am happy that there were enough books written about Smalltalk
>>> that we can have a competition.
>>>
>>> Thank you for organizing the contest, ESUG.
>>
>> I would also like to thank both ESUG for holding the contest and the
>> authors for their very valuable contribution to the community. While
>> Andreas does have a point about conflict of interest, it is unavoidable
>> due to the small size of our community (we had quite a bit of conflict
>> over this on squeak-dev last year, for example). It is like the small
>> town where the same guy is the sheriff, the auto repairman, the judge,
>> the fireman and so on.
>>
>> About the list itself, I did a quick search on Amazon for "smalltalk"
>> and found these others:
>>
>> Discovering Smalltalk (The Benjamin/Cummings Series in Object-Oriented
>> Software Engineering)
>> by Wilf Lalonde
>> (Paperback - Jan 17, 2008) - it seems to use Digitalk Smalltalk V, so
>> this is probably a new edition of an old book
>>
>> Advances in Smalltalk: 14th International Smaltalk Conference, ISC 2006,
>> Prague, Czech Republic, September 4-8, 2006, Revised Selected Papers
>> (Lecture ... / Programming and Software Engineering)
>> by Wolfgang De Meuter
>> (Paperback - May 18, 2007)
>>
>> Grundkurs Smalltalk - Objektorientierung von Anfang an
>> by Johannes Brauer
>> (Perfect Paperback - 2008) - in German
>>
>> Einsamkeit überwinden mit der TALISUND Strategie. Neue Menschen kennen
>> lernen - ohne Smalltalk.
>> by einsamkeit-ueberwinden.org
>> (Paperback - Mar 30, 2010) - in German
>>
>> The SICS Java Port Project: Automatic Translation of a Large Object
>> Oriented System from Smalltalk to Java
>> by Skarsaune Martin
>> (Paperback - Sep 15, 2008) - I would expect zero votes for this one :-)
>>
>> Self-Sustaining Systems: First Workshop, S3 2008 Potsdam, Germany, May
>> 15-16, 2008, Proceedings (Lecture Notes in Computer Science /
>> Programming and Software Engineering)
>> by Robert Hirschfeld and Kim Rose
>> (Paperback - Nov 21, 2008)
>>
>> Smalltalk Programming Language Family: Smalltalk, Squeak, Seaside, Ibm
>> Visualage, Scratch, Gnu Smalltalk, Visual Smalltalk Enterprise, Aida|web
>> by Books LLC
>> (Paperback - May 6, 2010)
>>
>> Dialecte Smalltalk: Squeak, Pharo, Gnu Smalltalk, Scratch, Bistro,
>> Visualworks
>> by Livres Groupe
>> (Paperback - Aug 1, 2010) - in French
>>
>> Class-Based Programming Languages: Java, C++, Python, Eiffel, Smalltalk,
>> Ruby, Simula, Common Lisp, Oberon, Clu, Objective-C, Squeak, Sather
>> by Books LLC
>> (Paperback - May 24, 2010)
>>
>> Dynamically-Typed Programming Languages: Lisp, Perl, Python, Mumps,
>> Smalltalk, Ruby, Logo, Tcl, Self, Common Lisp, Objective-C, Rebol,
>> Squeak
>> by Books LLC
>> (Paperback - May 26, 2010)
>>
>> Objektorientierte Programmiersprache: Php, Smalltalk-80, Embarcadero
>> Delphi, Oberon, Eiffel, Cluster, Haxe, Common Lisp, Pow!, Scratch, Lpc
>> by Bücher Gruppe
>> (Paperback - Jul 22, 2010) - in German
>>
>> Langage Orienté Objet: Java, C++, Ada, Javascript, Ruby, Python,
>> Codegear Delphi, Smalltalk, Kylix, Objective-C, Eiffel, Perl 6, Visual T
>> Sharp
>> by Livres Groupe
>> (Paperback - Jul 29, 2010) - in French
>>
>> Object-Oriented Programming Languages: Cobol, Java, C++, Perl, Fortran,
>> Python, Php, Eiffel, Smalltalk, Ruby, Blitz Basic, Turbo Pascal
>> by Books LLC
>> (Paperback - May 21, 2010)
>>
>> Ruby (Programming Language): Reflection (computer science), Dynamic
>> programming language, Object-oriented programming language, Perl,
>> Smalltalk, Yukihiro ... language), Ada (programming language)
>> by Frederic P. Miller, Agnes F. Vandome, and John McBrewster
>> (Paperback - Oct 12, 2009)
>>
>> I would say that the list is very reasonable without any of the above
>> books. Since I haven't read any of these nor the ones in the survey, I
>> won't be able to participate. But I find it great that people are still
>> taking the time to write new books.
>>
>> -- Jecel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

> On 08.09.2010 16:52, stephane ducasse wrote:
>> Since we do not add french books we do not add spanish nor japanese ones.
>>> The SICS Java Port Project: Automatic Translation of a Large Object Oriented System from Smalltalk to Java by Skarsaune Martin (Paperback - Sep 15, 2008) - I would expect zero votes for this one :-)
> While not a book on Smalltalk as such and thus not fitting for this contest, I actually found it an entertaining read!
> Mostly in a "So glad it wasn't me"-fashion, but still... :)
>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org