Re: Running Wisconsin Croquet Demo.

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Re: Running Wisconsin Croquet Demo.

Howard Stearns

On Jul 6, 2006, at 3:54 AM, Kiran wrote:

> Further to my earlier mail..
>       What should i enter for " Enter user name for  running  
> interactivity server"
>       I tried everyone, But when click " test  here or  
> default .".it says key not found..

Oops, I didn't give you enough information under 3, below.  This  
isn't normal-usage information, but "developer" information.

The WisconsinRouter distinguishes between two classes of user:  
"participants" and "servers." See WisconsinRouterUser  
class>>participantNamed:password: and #serverNamed:password:. The  
idea is to show that the router can maintain different sets of users  
with different access levels. The actual distinction here is that  
servers have the facet for supplying an island for "sync"ing, while  
ordinary participants do not.  In practice, that's probably not a  
realistic example nor a good design choice.

But as it is, we always have one or more machines that join all the  
known Wisconsin worlds, (a list hardcoded into the  
WisconsinParticipant class>>worlds). Such machines are there to  
provide continuity between sessions, such that when you add or delete  
something and then log off, there's still a machine somewhere running  
the world and which can provide that modified world state to you or  
someone else who joins again later. These machines are logged in as  
"servers", and we sometimes refer to them as "continuity servers."  
Here at UW, we actually run them headless: without rendering.

The instructions under 3, below, are for starting up your own routers  
for each of the known worlds, instead of using the one at UW. But  
this is also the same way we start the routers here! (OK, actually it  
isn't. We have a script rather than interactively pressing a button.  
But we do press the button all the time when testing and  
developement, which is why we found it convenient to include such a  
button in the image. In other words, it's there for us, not for you.)

Now, remember that the idea behind the two classes of users is to  
have different capabilities. So, it wouldn't do to put hardcode the  
username/password for the "stronger" kind of user into the image! So,  
when you press the button to start the routers, it asks you what  
username and password you want "servers" to use when connecting.  In  
the next step, when you press the 'test here or default' button to  
connect to these routers you just started, you will login in using  
the same username and password that you just told the routers about.

Something to keep in mind in groking the big picture here: Each world  
is identified by an object id that is supposed to be globally unique.  
The Wisconsin Worlds have object ids that were unique at the time of  
generation, and coded into the image. (They're on class methods for  
the classes that provide the default definition for each each world.)  
Now, when you run your local routers for these worlds, there are  
still routers at Wisconsin that are running worlds with the same  
object ids. This is not "the right thing" to do, but it isn't a  
problem in practice yet.  So if you're looking at this stuff and  
thinking that you want to have a network of worlds, some routed where  
you are, and some routed at other places like Wisconsin, please keep  
in mind that the code in this image won't really handle that yet.

> - Kiran
> On 7/6/06, Kiran <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No i havent updated..The code servers seems to be unavailable  
> during my India time..
> Anyway will check again..
> I am running on XP..
> I tried running the local router and running Wisconsin  
> participant..But i still i could see anything....
> I am afraid, I must be missing something seriously...
> - Kiran

There is something seriously wrong if you can't update. I do know  
that the HTTP server supplying the update stream has been rebooted at  
least once in the last few months. But it certainly isn't frequent.  
If you can get to the following URL, then Squeak should be able to  

Assuming you can update, I would proceed methodically along the  
following lines:

1. Try the demos in the standard Croquet SDK downloaded from http://
  If they don't work, check issues on this mailing list and in the  
mantis bug list and get them working.

[The standard Croquet SDK does contain a demo that can be used with  
WAN: SimpleDemo Master. However, I don't know of anyone running a  
router that you can connect to (and a continuity server that can  
supply a sync). And there isn't any service by which you can discover  
if there is anyone. (The idea of WiscWorlds is to try providing  
routers/continuity in a simple way WITHOUT solving the general  
discovery problem.)  Nonetheless, if you have two machines on two  
different subnets, you can use SimpleDemo Master to try out a form of  
WAN connectivity. See the menu items Tools->What's My Location and  
Tools->Connect to Another World.]

2. If the standard Croquet SDK is working, try out those same demos  
in an UPDATED installation of CroquetWiscWorlds.

3. Try running the standard WiscWorlds locally, as described above  
and under 3, below.

4. If it works, then restart Squeak and try connecting to Wisconsin.  
Give it a good minute or two to connect.
I'll try to be available on text chat during those times that I'm in  
a position to kick the machines here if they get stuck. AIM:  

If you get any errors at any step (e.g., especially ogl and openal  
errors), check this list and mantis, and report here if they're not  
previously covered.

> On 6/30/06, Howard Stearns <[hidden email] > wrote:
> On Jun 30, 2006, at 1:08 AM, Kiran wrote:
> > Hi Howard,
> >                   Thanks for a prompt reply.
> >                    But I still couldnt figure out the cause even
> > after following your tips in the mail.
> >
> >                   I observed a few things though:
> >
> >                   1 . I can't run even the other standard Demo
> > examples in First Steps.
> I know the standard demos didn't work at one point in within
> CroquetWiscWorlds1.0.10.image. This was fixed with patches. Did you
> update?
> >                        But I can run them in the OpenCroquet1.0Beta
> > download.
> Are you running both these images (one at a time) from the WiscWorlds
> download, or from the SDK download?
> The WiscWorlds installer has a check-box option to include the whole
> SDK. It is off by default.  It would be interesting to compare the
> Croquet1.0.10.image in the WiscWorlds installation vs the SDK
> installation, and to compare Croquet1.0.10.image vs
> CroquetWiscWorlds1.0.10.image when both are using the WiscWorlds
> installation.
> >
> >                   2.  I  get undefined ogl when I run the above
> > Croquet examples.But Opengl libraries are very much present, since
> > i dont have any problems when i run them in beta download.
> What platform are you using. What error do you get?
> >                   3. I tried running wp:= WisconsinParticpant new
> > openInWorld from a workspace as well, but i could'nt go beyond the
> > red screen with connecting...title.
> The WisconsinParticipant connects to a router that must be started
> separately.  By default, it will look for routers running within the
> same squeak session, and otherwise tries to connect to the routers at
> Wisconsin.  If you go to the "Wisconsinization" project, you will see
> buttons for starting and stopping a local router.  Note, however,
> that without connecting to the routers and other users in Wisconsin,
> your WisconsinParticipant will need to generate the worlds itself. To
> do this, it needs the extra content that is installed when you check
> the box for the SDK during installation.
> >
> >                  I am running as standalone and I am logging as
> > everyone(default login) in all the above trials.
> >
> >              Nice demo example though for learning to develop any
> > application on Croquet SDK.
> >              Am going through the code to understand it better.
> >
> > Thanks & Rgds
> > Kiran
> >
> >
> > On 6/29/06, Howard Stearns <[hidden email] > wrote: Hi Kiran,
> >
> > I'm sorry that you're having problems.  The WiscWorlds do indeed  
> work
> > over a WAN connection to Wisconsin.  There are a number of things
> > that could be going wrong.
> >
> > 1. Are you running Croquet stand-alone or through the Web browser
> > plugin? If the latter, it starts by checking for updates (which
> > certainly will be present in your first use). If there are updates
> > that you don't have, it loads them and saves the image.  However, at
> > that point you have to reload the browser page -- it cannot continue
> > on its own.  (There's no blocking if you are current with respect to
> > updates.)
> >
> > 2. All the portals to other worlds are arranged right in front of  
> you
> > when you connect. If these have been left opened by other users, the
> > system needs to get each open world before you start. Some of these
> > can take a while, and getting all of them might be exceeding some
> > timeout.
> >
> > I'm not sure what the long term fix for this is, but this morning
> > (around 1pm Greenwich time)  I'll just reset everything to make sure
> > that isn't the problem.
> >
> > 3. There has been no performance or robustness tuning.  Sometimes
> > things break on my end. Try again after the reset.
> >
> > 4. Just accept the default login. (But you would have gotten an  
> error
> > if the problem was an incorrect login.)
> >
> > On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:32 AM, Kiran wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >     I downloaded as per instructions on
> > > WiscWorlds/.
> > >     But, I was unable to load  the pages. It just stays at waiting
> > > for connection...
> > >
> > >     FYI, i am trying to access from India. So does the demo  
> support
> > > WAN connection?
> > >
> > >    or am i missing anything?  Appreciate your inputs.
> > >
> > > Thanks & Rgds
> > > Kiran
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >