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Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

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Long Haired David

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

I have finally given up on trying to sort this out. Under both Windows Server 2012 and Windows 10 my Pharo image just exits leaving nothing, not even a crash file. Hence, I have fixed my MacBookAir so that it stays alive with the lid down and I am now using that as my Seaside server. It has been up for the last 4 days so it seems that this is a Windows only problem and (hopefully) not my code.

In passing, I am a high-level programmer in Pharo in that I do not use any special calls or processes.

Davids
Totally `Objects

David
Totally Objects
Doing Smalltalk since 1989

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

David,

> On 20 Apr 2021, at 17:01, David Pennington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have finally given up on trying to sort this out. Under both Windows Server 2012 and Windows 10 my Pharo image just exits leaving nothing, not even a crash file. Hence, I have fixed my MacBookAir so that it stays alive with the lid down and I am now using that as my Seaside server. It has been up for the last 4 days so it seems that this is a Windows only problem and (hopefully) not my code.
>
> In passing, I am a high-level programmer in Pharo in that I do not use any special calls or processes.
>
> Davids
> Totally `Objects

I believe you are using some form of persistency that you built yourself, with data written in STON to files. Assuming you store each object in its own file, you are then also doing a lot of IO. Are you sure that you are properly closing your file streams, in all circumstances ?

It is possibly that you run out of IO resources.

Also, garbage collection on a server image (without a UI) is sometimes a bit strange, it can take a while to kick in.

I am just guessing here.

It is still not good that the image/vm quits without any notice, that is for sure.

Sven

Long Haired David

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

I am sure that I do. In any case both the Windows machines have double the memory of the Mac and the Mac is still going.

On 20 Apr 2021 16:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

David,

> On 20 Apr 2021, at 17:01, David Pennington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have finally given up on trying to sort this out. Under both Windows Server 2012 and Windows 10 my Pharo image just exits leaving nothing, not even a crash file. Hence, I have fixed my MacBookAir so that it stays alive with the lid down and I am now using that as my Seaside server. It has been up for the last 4 days so it seems that this is a Windows only problem and (hopefully) not my code.
>
> In passing, I am a high-level programmer in Pharo in that I do not use any special calls or processes.
>
> Davids
> Totally `Objects

I believe you are using some form of persistency that you built yourself, with data written in STON to files. Assuming you store each object in its own file, you are then also doing a lot of IO. Are you sure that you are properly closing your file streams, in all circumstances ?

It is possibly that you run out of IO resources.

Also, garbage collection on a server image (without a UI) is sometimes a bit strange, it can take a while to kick in.

I am just guessing here.

It is still not good that the image/vm quits without any notice, that is for sure.

Sven

David
Totally Objects
Doing Smalltalk since 1989

Long Haired David

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

I have looked at the code. There is only one method for reading and one for writing and they both close the file when they have done so that’s wouldn’t ’t seem to be the problem. It still doesn’t answer why it works on my M1 MacBookAir and not on two Windows boxes :-(

> On 20 Apr 2021, at 16:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> David,
>
>> On 20 Apr 2021, at 17:01, David Pennington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have finally given up on trying to sort this out. Under both Windows Server 2012 and Windows 10 my Pharo image just exits leaving nothing, not even a crash file. Hence, I have fixed my MacBookAir so that it stays alive with the lid down and I am now using that as my Seaside server. It has been up for the last 4 days so it seems that this is a Windows only problem and (hopefully) not my code.
>>
>> In passing, I am a high-level programmer in Pharo in that I do not use any special calls or processes.
>>
>> Davids
>> Totally `Objects
>
> I believe you are using some form of persistency that you built yourself, with data written in STON to files. Assuming you store each object in its own file, you are then also doing a lot of IO. Are you sure that you are properly closing your file streams, in all circumstances ?
>
> It is possibly that you run out of IO resources.
>
> Also, garbage collection on a server image (without a UI) is sometimes a bit strange, it can take a while to kick in.
>
> I am just guessing here.
>
> It is still not good that the image/vm quits without any notice, that is for sure.
>
> Sven

David
Totally Objects
Doing Smalltalk since 1989

kmo

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

Hi -

Firstly, have you tried asking on the Seaside forum? Might be worth doing.

If it were me, I would try to see if it was a problem with my specific
application or a a general seaside/windows problem. Does the Seaside demo
app work? Can you write a simple Hello World seaside app. Does that work?

I would just try to constantly narrow down the problem.

Not much help, I know. But these were the thoughts that occurred to me.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Petter

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

It might be worth trying to run Pharo under wsl if you have to go Windows? I
do on my job laptop and it works fine for me.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Christopher Fuhrman-4

Re: Seaside disappearing under Windows

I second trying Pharo under WSL for robustness. I wrote a blog entry on how to set it up, and I think it's still valid: https://fuhrmanator.github.io/2019/02/27/Pharo-in-WSL.html - Since you'd be using WSL2, you have to do things differently for the DISPLAY variable: https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/4793#issuecomment-588321333

As to the question of why Windows on Pharo is less stable, I have some experience using over the years other programs ported to Windows from OSS, e.g., LyX and InkScape. I have seen a repeating pattern: key OSS devs of certain libraries are hyper-sensitive to how things are done in Windows (rightly so, some things are very different and require creative solutions that break when Windows changes). We all know OSS resources are limited. Consequently the libraries don't get the love.or testing they need. Despite this I think the Pharo team does a great job supporting Windows.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 15:39, Petter <[hidden email]> wrote:

It might be worth trying to run Pharo under wsl if you have to go Windows? I
do on my job laptop and it works fine for me.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Christopher Fuhrman, P.Eng., PhD

Professeur au Département de génie logiciel et des technologies de l'information
ÉTS (École de technologie supérieure)

http://profs.etsmtl.ca/cfuhrman

+1 514 396 8638

L'ÉTS est une constituante de l'Université du Québec